2019.10.05 Litany Lesson - Punishment Rites
| Litany Lesson – Punishment Rites | |
|---|---|
| The Sept gathers at the Caern Amphitheater to learn about Punishment Rites | |
| Players | Felicity, Hjalmar, Erin, Journey, Dragomir, Jes, Faith, Anna (old), Shaun, George |
| Location | Sept of the Enduring Spirit Caern Amphitheater |
| Spheres | Gaian Garou Kinfolk |
SCENE: Lessons and Punishments
Weather: A Few Clouds, 76.0 F, slight Western wind (5.8mph)
Moon: Judge's Moon - First Quarter, Rage diff 6 (5 if Philodox and/or Crinos)
Scene Set:
Amphitheater - Deep Forest
The amphitheater has been decorated specifically for the event. Each seat on the split-logs has been marked with a marker. The inner most ring, has Bear symbols, marking them for the Sept of the Enduring Spirit. The second ring, is marked for each Tribe, concentrically. After Tribe, there are Auspice markers on the seats for each phase of the moon, sectioned. The outer most rings are marked with pack totem icons, to represent each of the packs. Each seat, only has one symbol. Lastly, there are thirteen long old scrolls hanging around the outer area. Each appears the representative of one of the precepts of the Garou Litany, written out in long form in small print, documenting stories, myths, legends, and carrying names and associations on each. The kind it would take a lifetime to ever truly memorize.
Dragomir, Eye of the Storm is standing in the middle of the dias in the center, adorned with a silver robe, glyphed with symbols representing all of the many totems and spirits of the sept, each hand sewn and stylized to personify those they represent. In the back, is the glyph for Bear - boldest and proudly worn. He is holding in his left half-gloved hand a Crystal Javelin, which glints and radiates its own energy. He greets as each arrives, and gestures with his free hand, "Please come, take a seat. We shall begin shortly with a reciting of our Litany. Welcomes brothers and sisters, Warriors and friends of the Sept of the Enduring Spirit." He watches as many of the younger garou and kinfolk of the Sept begin filing in and sitting wherever there is room. The murmering of the mock-elder giving a lesson on the Litany seems to have interest.
Felicity is sitting in her place, just off to one side, in the inner ring. She has her hands in her lap, sitting quietly, her eyes mostly on Dragomir, though occasionally they roam about here and there. She's REALLY starting to show, at about 5 months pregnant, and her clothes, rather than conceal that fact, show it off to their best advantage with a top that covers her from neck to hip and a pair of jeans that seem almost made for her body as it is right this moment. She has a couple of bottles of water sitting between her feet, and one in hand, and a couple of small protein-ish snacks if it goes too long and she starts to get a little woozy. For now, though, she's JUST fine, sitting quietly in her spot and waiting for things to begin. As people start to file in, she looks each of them over with a passive sort of neutral neutrality that is neutral. It's one of THOSE days. Blame hormones.
ShieldBrother enters the Amphitheatre. Intruiged as to how this lecture will be going. Upon being greeted by Eye of the Storm-Yuf, he would nod and greet him in return. "May this Lecture be a fine one, Eye of the Storm-Yuf." He smiles warmly and greets all others present whilst heading for the place for him to sit at. He starts observing the Theatre's decorations with much interest as he awaits the start of the Lecture.
Erin shows up and looks around at all the places and scratches the back of her head a little bit as if not sure where she is suppose to be sitting so she finds one way way in the back in the nosebleed section as some would call it, that's always a safe bet right. She chews on her lower lip perhaps a little nervouse. Wait when is Erin not somewhat nervouse phhh typical Erin. She pulls out a pad of paper from her jacket and a pen, as she's totally going to take notes.
Journey comes in through the trees, carrying a fabric sack along with his normal satchel. Looking around, he considers moving to look for a place to sit, seeming to choose a spot at at random, sitting at a spot as he looks in the sack and starts lookign through the sack.
Making her way down into the amphitheater is a face that hasn't been making many public rounds. Faith is going to take seating for two, on the aisle, just in case she has to make a hasty retreat. The rucksack she carries along with her is set on the group, but kept looped around her wrist for ease of retrieval. Gaia forbid she would have to bend over for it. The kinswoman takes a moment to consider the gathered, then attends to the lecture nearing its start.
Lunara also arrives and quietly waits in line before taking her seat somewhere in the back section. She drops a bag to rest down by her feet and drawns out a small notebook with a pencil to begin scratching out some notes.
Shaun arrives loaded down with a backpack as well as his guitar dangling from his shoulder, offering a smile and a nod of his head to everyone. He settles himself as Dragomir starts talking, and listens before his eyes go around the area to the others. He swigs the pack off and starts digging through it quickly to get out something to write on.
Though not an official member of the Sept, Death's Jester has nevertheless opted to take part in the event, which... well, could be good or bad depending on how you feel about The Fool portion of a Moot. He's dressed in a black velvet button-up, untucked from his mustard-yellow jeans, with a matching goldenrod silk tie and gold-framed sunglasses, smoking a Nat Sherman cigarette and toting a Coleman cooler filled with beer. He takes a seat in the middle-benches -- marked off specifically for Red Talons, so... like an asshole -- and lounges languidly, putting his classic Doc Martens up on the bench in front of him and just generally acting like a fucking Ragabash. Anyone sitting nearby is quietly offered a beer or a cigarette, and he has a surprising variety of each in either his cooler or his cigarette holder. Fucking Ragabash, indeed.
Dragomir clicks the end of the javelin on the marble surface of the dias a few times to get everyone's attention and says, "Let us begin. Let us recite the Litany in short form, so it may be referenced with ease and taught to our youngest. Repeat after me." The man begins reciting each precept of the Litany: Garou Shall Not Mate With Garou, Combat the Wyrm Wherever it Dwells and Wherever It Breeds, Respect the Territory of Another, Accept an Honorable Surrender, Submission to Those of Higher Station, The First Share of the Kill for the Greatest in Station, Ye Shall Not Eat the Flesh of Humans, Respect Those Beneath Ye - All Are of Gaia, The Veil Shall Not Be Lifted, Do Not Suffer Thy People to Tend Thy Sickness, The Leader May Be Challenged at Any Time During Peace, The Leader May Not Be Challenged During Wartime, Ye Shall Take No Action That Causes a Caern to Be Violated. Eye of the Storm allows others to join in if they want, to what extent they want, but recites the Litany with his own pride and emphasis. It is clear he has spent his entire life reciting the Litany, and learning it, and practicing it. Then he turns, and looks towards the assembled and asks, "We know our Litany, we recite it with Honor and we live up to it as best we can. What happens then, if we fail to live up to these great expressions of our values?" He motions his half-gloved hand and says, "We will get back to that question. First, let's talk about Rites. What -are- rites? What is the purpose of rites, why do we use them?" He asks of the audience, allowing people to weigh-in if they so choose now.
Felicity recites the Litany along with Dragomir and surely plenty of others. Her recitation is quiet, though. She opens her water bottle and takes a little sip, looking around from time to time
Tilting her head a little to the side. Erin makes notes as the Litany is repeated and tries to follow though she isn't very loud as she joins in with the others. She looks beside her a moment before she looks back to her writting. She looks back towards the scrolls that are hanging for a moment then back Teacher Dragomir.
Journey looks up and recites the Litany as it is recited, and digs in the sack, and as he pulls out small objects, his voice comes from him. "Rites are the enacting of the Spiritual Laws Gaia laid down between the Shifter Breeds and the Spirit world. In the short form. The subject is as far reaching as the Litany itself. successful enacting of a Rite is not preternatural, but Supernatural. Aided by the acceptance of the Spirits as fundamental ad the laws of Physics that apply to the material world. Garou use them to anchor and fortify the Spiritual side of ourselves, deal with spirits and the like. This in itself answers next to nothing as the study of Rites is large enough of a subject to swallow a lifetimes worth of work." He pulls out a jar and spoon, opening the jar, and sniffing, then takes a spoonful and eats it.
Hjalmar does indeed recite the Litany with the others. His voice deep and clear as he does so. But after that. He would go back to observe for now.
Anna is hanging close to the edge, not sure what is going on. She caught wind of this occurring as she happened to be in the area, the kinfolk uncertain as to whether or not she should be here. Sitting, the Fianna listens intently, her eyes only drifting from face to face periodically, her expression faintly curious.
Erin turns to look over to Journey when he speaks and she can't help but smile and fights every urge to wave to him. She makes a mental note and then writes some more stuff down or is she doodling, it might just be doodles.
Shaun recites the litany unobtrusively, his mouth working but little to no sound coming out of it. He glances around again, as if hoping to spot someone but then shrugs and keeps his attention mainly on Dragomir.
Lunara also recites when the others do. She continues to take notes making short citations as the lesson continues. Only once, does she look up at the description of rites, and then she looks puzzled for a moment. Her pencil moves across the paper before flipping to a second page.
Jes waves a finger in the air during the Litany recitation but doesn't chime in, mostly looking around to see who's drinking the Kool-Aid and who went BYOB instead. When Journey speaks up, he listens from start to finish, then points finger guns at the Theurge and says, "That, but also like... cultural... fuck. Bonding... social... you get it. They can also be like religious holidays. Easter Mass, Ash Wednesday, May the Fourth.". Yeah, he's not helping.
Journeys spoon waves at Jess and he nods as the other speaks. Agreement.
Having recited the litany with the others, Faith turns to listen to the answer given by the theurge. Her attention shifts to the man lounging in the Red Talon section, and then turns her attention back to the half moon in the silver robes.
Dragomir looks around as some begin to express their opinion, though his blue eyes fall towards Journey when the wise elder speaks his words. He nods deeply and lifts his half-gloved hand motions it, "At their fundament, that is a perfect definition, I completely agree. But why, do we use them? What value do they actually play in the Garou Nation?" The Silver Fang mock-elder begins to walk the dias circle, looking around to all those assembled. He lifts the javelin in the air, as well as his half-gloved hand and says, "The purpose is to form.. and reinforce, both the spiritual and social ties that bind the Garou both to each other, but also to Gaia herself." He takes a moment to look around, making sure that everyone has had a chance to digest that. "You see my friends.. this is all part of what is known as The Pact. We made a deal with the spirits long ago, to give our loyalty and service, in exchange that these 'rituals' we conduct.. were more than just words. They are empowered with the presence and energies of the very spirits all around us." He looks around and says, "But the goal.. the purpose.. the need, is not for division. Not for isolation, not for destruction, or revenge, or any other purpose. The reason the spirits empowered this rituals for us, was so that we could honor the Pact and better serve them, united." The Silver Fang hops down from the dias and starts to walk through the crowd now, lifting a half-gloved hand up to stroke his chin. "So, we have many rites.. we use them all the time. We also have rites, for when our Litany is broken. They are called Punishment rites. These, are perhaps some of the most complicated and important rites we have. The purpose of a punishment rite, is to strengthen a Garou by establishing clear limits of acceptable behavior. They are the final resort, after less structured punishments fail to work. They are an invocation of The Pact with spirits, the highest form of request."
Hjalmar looks at Journey as he speaks, and then at Dragomir. Nodding as he listens.
Looking to each person as they speak, Erin makes more notes and seems to be thinking about something that is being said. She wrinkles her brow a moment and then makes some more notes or doodles on her pad turning the page to write more.
Journey looks back to the jar and nods as Dragomir speaks, eating with the spoon as he's sort of perched at a random spot. At the end of Dragomirs lecture moment, his head tilts from side to side, and he remains silent, eating.
Jes makes an "Isn't that what I just said?" face before cracking open a can of Ten Fidy Stout and pouring it into an actual viking drinking horn he's brought along for the occasion. True to the name, the beer pours like black motor oil, and he drinks practically half of it in his first gulp before going back to his cigarette. It's tough to say whether he's going to Hell for Gluttony or Sloth first. Either way, he's listening enough that when the talk goes to Punishment Rites he makes an audible "of course" grunt that can be heard in the whole damn Amphitheatre.
Felicity's eyes slide to each person as they speak, but she is otherwise quiet. She reaches for her little bag o protein snacks and lightly plucks out a couple of peanuts to nibble on quietly, chasing them with a sip of water.
Dragomir smiles lightly, walking over to Journey to peer down into the jar to see what he's eating, and nods. Then he turns and starts to walk back. A half-gloved hand brushes through the hair of a kinfolk boy as he does so. "What other methods do we have to deal with someone who violates our precepts?" He asks, taking a moment to look around. He stops to look at some of the others, "Are these the only tools that Gaia has given us for dealing with each other?.. Are they the only means we have to establish limits, express frustrations, or grievances?" Dragomir motions towards Jes and nods his head, then he begins to slow in his walk, and turns to look back towards the assembled, and shakes his half-gloved hand in the air and says, "Alright.. lets assume you've already done everything you can to work with a fellow Garou. You've exhausted all your methods, you've spoken to them, you're threatened them, you've warned them, chided them.. whatever, and you have no other choice. It's time. It's time to call upon The Pact - it's time to call out to Gaia for aid." And he makes a very dramatic effort, to tip his head back and yells out, "Gaia! Spirits!.. Help us. Punish this individual, so they may find their path!" and he looks back down, to look over everyone. Then he tips his head to the side and asks, "Where do we begin?.. which rite is appropriate? I mean.. there's many punishment rites. Can I do it myself? Do I need help? Where do I start? I use the best one I know, and hope it sticks, right?" he asks the crowd, lofting a brow and motions his hand around for answers.
Frost slips in a bit late, finding herself a seat to park it in. She's good at being quiet, so she settles in without causing too much disruption.
"Most of us start by asking a Philodox," Jes offers in a flat tone as he listens along, laying back to stretch out and relax while he listens. "Kinda their job to know this shit. We Ragabash tend to enter the picture well before it's the Rite moment and try to mock the dumb out of people before it's a problem."
That brow raises again as Dragomir speaks about punishment rites. She looks like perhaps that is something new to her and more doodling I mean notes are taken. She looks towards Jes and Journey to see if they will add to this topic as they have been.
Hjalmar nods at Jes's words. And looks around to see whom else would answer.
Journey is DEFINATELY eating homemade yogurt. Smallish jar. the fabric sack contains similar jars and other foodstuffs. Journey looks up as Dragomir approaches, remaining silent and eating as Dragomir makes his way crossing the lecture area addressing the group. As the Ragabash speaks, he nods, "Selecting the Punishment approperate is the job of the Judges, work of the Half Moon, though it does follow a logic, and after sufficent.. process."
That earns another nod from Hjalmar. "Aye. We look at the transgressions made. We look at the Rank of the transgressor. We talk to those that were wronged. To the wrongdoer. These are just a few of the examples. And depending on the case. It takes us a long time or a short time to reach a conclussion."
Faith's gaze falls on an empty space on the floor of the amphitheater, some distance from the dais. Only the slightest tilt of her head suggests she's listening intently to the input of the various garou who have participated in the conversational lesson so far. Her own expression is without an exceptional tell for the time being.
Dragomir tips his head to the side as he hears Jes speak, lifting a brow and slowly looking around to the others, "A Judge. There are many, right? Anyone born beneath the halfmoon is qualified to handle such matters. Are there any conditions? Rank requirements? Caliber? Can I walk into any Sept as a fresh off the Rite of Passage, Half-moon and lay out my judgment on any situation I come across?" Dragomir considers, looking back towards Journey and nods his head, "So there's expectations of lineage of justice.. we don't just start at the top, and see what sticks to the wall. There's an expectation of a process, or some degree of standard." He then moves to hop back up onto the dias and says, "You are absolutely correct. Each Sept appoints a Truthcatcher for this purpose. Part of the Truthcatcher's role is to ensure that this standard of punishment is maintained. That the correct course of correction is handled, and the appropriate level of punishment is dealt out. Otherwise, anyone could invoke The Pact, on anyone, at any time.. heedless of its interpretation or meaning, or the consequences there of." Then Dragomir raises up his hand and points a single half-gloved finger and says, "Once the Truthcatcher has appointed a Judge, the Judge then has the power to invoke one of the initial punishments if all other paths have failed. The first.. is the Rite of Ostracism. This is the most commonly used, and rarely.. is it required that more is needed. One phase of the moon, the recipient is sent away and must fend for themselves. This is to teach them the value of being in a Sept, and to appreciate that being part of a Sept is a privilege they should respect."
Frost leans forward to lightly rest her hand on Faith's shoulder, giving her a small and soft smile before settling back in her seat to look towards Dragomir once more.
Erin doesn't look up as she makes some more notes on her paper. There is a little pause as she looks up as Dragomir speaks looking thoughtfully at him as that brow raises again before she looks back at her pad and turns the page and starts to write again..
Shaun is scribbling down notes and listening, but all the talk about punishment rites is making him wiggle a bit in his seat. He keeps respectfully quiet and just listens and files away the information.
Journey chews on some fruit in the yogurt, and nods, "Yes. That is exactly what can happen. However the burden of laying out a just process, and explaining the justice in the judgement is on that fresh Cliath. If no other judgements on the matter are laid down, the Cliath may find themselves supported by an Entire Sept. Silent Strider Half Moons travel Sept to Sept and are often sought as a fresh point of view on a situation." He looks up at Dragomir directly, "Makes for a good Rank Challenge sometimes too."
Faith's gaze is drawn behind her with the touch. Her attention shifts to Frost and she leans back a little with a brief nod of acknowledgment. The Silent Strider's comment brings her attention back to the lecture.
Dragomir points towards Journey's words and nods his head, "Indeed.. with the Truthcatcher's approval, and appointment. A judge of a lower rank can be called upon to handle matters larger than themselves. When I was merely more than a Cliath myself, we traveled to San Fransisco and I had to pass judgment on a pack of corrupted Elders that had betrayed their Sept. It certainly happens." Dragomir continues, "Another, is known as the Stone of Scorn. Some Septs have one ready at all times, just in case. Our Sept does not, as we have rarely used punishment rites. In fact, not only just recently have I ever seen one performed here." He shrugs a bit at that, before he says, "The Stone of Scorn is something physically held. .and passed around, while all parties have the chance to tell scathing stories and disparaging tales about the recipient all night long. It is meant to shame them, so they understand the gravity of what they have done and what kind of impact they are having on their brothers and sisters. But once they have proven themselves honorable once again, they are forgiven and their honor is restored." Then Dragomir offers, "There is also the Voice of the Jackal. This is an important one.. because this is when the behavior has disrupted more than just themselves, but also the entire Sept, or an entire tribe. These are generally considered the first stage, the initial invocation of The Pact. He takes a moment to look around and asks, "But what if they don't work?... What if you use one of these, and the individual STILL does not learn. What if they are STILL on the wrong path? What if your brother or sister, is STILL not respecting the lines of behavior we need?"
Journey takes a breath, spoon going up, then pointing at Dragomir. "You were a part of the Stone of Scorn for Monica, 'Keres' of the Black Furies." He says, then looks over to everyone else, spoon returning to the jar. "Was a few years ago, long enough to not invalidate the point, I have personal reasons for remembering it." He then takes a breath, turning back to the subject matter. "There are further Rites, further punishments that range from losses of capabilities, stripping of Ranks or Power, to Death, and worse than Death."
Felicity is still just sitting quietly, her eyes moving to each person in turn. She sits perfectly straight, even though her butt is completely numb doing so. She's listening carefully to each and every word spoken
As Felicity looks at him his expression alters as he remembers something. But now isn't the time, and he just smiles at the other kin and continues to listen. (Shaun)
Erin is still very quiet just making notes though her face is like loud with questions or unsure but again no words come out of her mouth.
Hjalmar nods. "Aye. We also have the Satire Rite. A Rite which most of you might have witnessed at the last Moot. It is used to Strip one of his Rank when the offender's behaviour was bad enough, and Gaia agrees with the need to use such a Rite."
Felicity shifts her position slightly. She goes from sitting with her ankles and knees together to carefully draping one leg over the other. Her hands move to rest on her belly and she looks more directly at Hjalmar as he speaks. Shaun, of course, gets a faint, pleasant smile.
Dragomir nods, "Ahh yes.. the Stone of Scorn for Monica.. I had forgotten. It was more than two decades ago for me.. you are correct. One other punishment rite has been performed." Then he lifts his half-gloved hand and points towards Journey once more, sitting down in one of the log seats marked for the Sept of the Enduring Spirit and facing the group now, right beside his mate. "You are absolutely rite.. there are greater forms of punishment rite. They are rarely if ever used, and when they are.. they are recorded as some of the greatest atrocities the Garou Nation have ever seen." He lifts his hand to points towards the scrolls around the arena. "They are recorded.. as part of the Litany. Transgressions, as the Wisdom of The Pact, and become part of a greater lesson that we teach our Garou through the generations." He motions his half-gloved hand once more. Then Dragomir takes a moment of pause and says, "Lets take a moment to talk about recent events. As many of you have approached me asking about it, and want to understand how it was performed, and why. The rite that was performed at the last Moot was called the Satire Rite. It is extremely rare that it is used, as it is a greater form of the Stone of Scorn. It is a very powerful ritual, and used to grievously punish the most atrocious members of the Garou Nation. Ones that have been warned and chided many times, ones that we have spent countless cycles of the moon trying to teach and condition. It is a ritual that is used, when all other paths have failed, and there is simply no choice but to strip that individual of a great deal of who they are and what they have achieved." The man lets that sink in for a moment, and pats Felicity's shoulder lightly and slowly begins to get up. Then he turns and starts to climb back up on the dias, and he tips his head back and shouts up to the air once more, "Gaia! Spirits!.. Help us. We have tried everything. We have fought hard and tried so much, but our brother, our sister.. is beyond redemption!" He pleads to the air, and falls to his knees and screams, "What more can we do?! What more can we suffer, to guide them back to their path?! Guide us! Answer our Call, please Gaia!" He says, before lowering his head, and then he offers, "Because after this.. we have only two choices left.. and they end in death. This is truly our last, and final choice. A last ditch plea to Gaia, to help us to save this individual. Harrowing indeed."
Looking puzzled for a moment Erin looks around and chews on her lip perhaps those nerves suddently comming up for some reason as she looks around. She makes notes again before Erin sinks a little bit in her log.
Felicity does not move even a bit, other than to look up at Dragomir. Her hands still rest in her lap. Her foot twitches once, but that is all. Neutral face is neutral tonight.
Faith has been mostly quiet, still on the edge of the aisle seat. But now she raises a hand slightly. At first it's not notable, then it hovers over the swell of her belly and higher, until it hangs in the air. Unlike the ranking garou speaking out, the kinswoman waits to be acknowledged.
Journey tilts his head from side to side, taking in a breath, though a hand going up was almost expected and causes Journey to halt at once and turn back to his yogurt. Silent Strider mode, on.
Shaun shifts a bit uncomfortably in his seat. His eyes go to Felicity and there's a warm expression in them before he drops them and scribbles again on his paper, even if he is just doodling something. His attention is drawn to Faith and his eyes spark as he waits for the reaction.
Dragomir lifts off his knees, brushing off his robe lightly with his free hand and using his javelin to carry him. He takes a moment to look around, and then he gestures towards Faith and asks, "You have a question?" He motions, "Please don't try to stand Faith, ask - I will repeat if others can't hear you. Thank you for coming by the way. If you need anything, please let us know."
Xavier makes it, he's late but still he makes it wanting to be here but having to do his patrol. Quietly he joins up with the others, not trying to disturb anyone as people speak.
The young woman does stay seated, but it's unlikely her words will need to be repeated. She's clear, loud, and without hesitation. "Thank you for acknowledging me Eye-of-the-Storm-Rhya. Most of those here know that I've been in a fair share of trouble. So, first, thank you, each of you, for helping me to become better - even if I still have a long way to go. I think my question is more for Shaderunner-Rhya, if you would accept my apologies for any lapse in etiquette. But it's about something Shield Brother-Rhya said." The kin then waits for a yay or nay before continuing.
Journey looks over, blinking, confused, spoon coming out of his mouth. He glances to Dragomir and shrugs, he doesn't seem horribly offended by anything.
Dragomir motions, "Please Shaderunner'rhya, I have benefited from your Wisdom since coming here, if you would offer it now.. it is most welcome."
Erin looks up and looks over to Faith and then towards Dragomir and then to Journey. Man does she ever look confused or lost. She rubs the back of her neck looking again towards the scrolls then looks like she is thinking before she chews on her cheek as she looks back to Dragomir once again scratching at the back of her neck.
Faith lets her hands settle down on the swell of her belly, and rest there as she listens to the garou speaking. Her expression, brows slightly knit, mouth puckered on one side where the scar cuts closest to her lips, is challenging to read. When it seems that she's been given leave to do so, the young woman looks directly to Journey with her question. "Thank you, again Shaderunner-Rhya. When Shield Brother-Rhya," whom is acknowledged with a soft nod of her head, "..says, and Gaia agrees," the kinswoman takes pause and sorts her words carefully before they spill out, "I just lack an understanding of the Pact I guess, but you've always been able to make things plain to me Sir. How is it known that Gaia agrees, or even a lesser spirit in a less potent rite, agrees or disagrees as opposed to bends to the will and or power of the garou, or group thereof? It's my understanding a pack totem can make their will known by revoking their presence, but a lesser spirit can be forced into a fetish rather than bargained into one, Sir?"
Journey listens to Faith, nodding, and pulls the spoon from his mouth. He considers a moment, and swallows, "Spirits are of different power, you understand this with your question, they are also of differing complexity. One may have a conversation with a Queen Bee, where a Drone Bee spirit might only care about flowers." He says, "Interacting with the Spirits always happens with the Pact for that is Gaia's Law. All spirits come from Gaia, ultimately, all Spirits exist in Her Dreams. Not a Metaphor. So they have different senses of self. A Totem Rite is a contract with a potent Spirit complex enough to have a sort of will of it's own, and the Pact defines that Totem Spirit certain rights, certain privilidges. Violation of terms of a Totemic comtract, the spirit may act as it sees to withdraw itself from the Pack or members. Strain in a Packs totem bond is a serious condition, indeed." He tilts his head, "That help?"
Dragomir turns then to look towards Hjalmar and asks, "Did you say when Gaia agrees with the need to use such a Rite?" He shakes his head and offers, "That is going to be very confusing for some people here Shield Brother. That makes it sound like you had a direct conversation with Gaia, or discussed options with her. I believe what you meant to say was, you performed the ritual, and because it did not fail - you are presuming Gaia wished it." Dragomir lifts his half-gloved hand and says, "This is a misconception. It's common though. The belief that if we achieve success, it is Gaia's will that it was done. That is not exactly true. You see.." as he looks around to the many assembled audience he begins to explain, "Rituals.. require a number of participants.. and there are variables.. such as time of day, and extra participants which make them easier to perform. In the case of the ritual that Shield Brother performed, he had a great deal of help." Then he lifts his hand and motions a second finger and says, "Also, keep in mind.. that when we perform a ritual, we are not actually invoking Gaia. We are invoking The Pact, with all the spirits. So those.." he motions to Journey and says, "Like Shaderunner'rhya, is far more likely to succeed in rituals - because he has a strong affinity with the spirits around him, as a Theurge. As well as a number of tricks and ways he has learned to make them easier and less likely he will fail. There is foolish skepticism that if a ritual fails, it is because Gaia believes it was wrong. But as I said before, this is a very dangerous notion to have as a Judge. It's that 'anything that sticks to the wall is right, cause it stuck to the wall' mentality." He looks around and asks, "Does that make sense to everyone?"
Frost reaches a hand into her back pocket, pulling out a notepad to scribble on. She then folds it and rises out of her seat to offer it to Dragomir, inclining her head politely before resuming her seat.
If Faith was going to answer Journey, and it looked perhaps if she was by the slight gape of her lips, the words are stopped by the sound of Dragomir's own voice. The young woman nods at the Silent Strider and gestures a 'thank you' with ASL, before hands go back to her lap and she turns to observe the Silver Fang speaker. The knit of her brow has relaxed, and her expression softens to attentive neutrality as she watches Frost.
Erin of course looks super confused and lost but she does her best to try to listen, there is more head scratching as she looks from one person to the other as they talk. Yes more doodling happends on that pad as she tilts her head listening. She's perfectly quiet up in the nosebleeds on her own.
George comes in from the main area of the caern carrying a Djembe by its strap in one hand and a paper bag around a brown glass bottle. Taking a swig from the bottle as listens and finds a place to sit.
Felicity's eyes slide to each person and she takes another sip of her water. She contemplates speaking. It's there in every line of her body, but she doesn't. Instead, she takes a deep breath and presses lightly on one side of her belly, squirming ever so slightly before she resumes her more or less neutral professional expression
Hjalmar would remain quiet and just keeps on listening to the lecture as it proceeds.
Dragomir takes the note from Frost, considering for a moment before opening it up to read it. He does not read it first, merely says exactly what it says - let's hope it's not a friendly suggestion that his robe is open or something. "Is it common that the worst rite is chosen first without seeing other options first? Is that how we should all expect judging to be handled?" There is a long moment of pause at that. The man takes in a breath through his nostrils, and motions to take a seat on the edge of the dias before he answers. Dragomir takes a long moment to look out over the collected group, all the faces, the kinfolk, the garou, the many people that have come to gather and learn. "That was a very good question Evelyn." He starts, and then he offers, "As a Philodox, I want to assure you that we would not do that to you. It is important to me that you believe in our Litany, or systems.. in the use of our punishment rites, and that you all understand that these are not tools to be used to hurt each other. I do not want you all to be afraid of these rites." The man takes a moment and says, "It is important that we as a Sept support each other, and the growth and development of each other, that we recognize mistakes - but seek to help build and reinforce those bonds with each other and Gaia." The words spoken and then he turns to look towards Frost and he says specifically to her, "I assure you, -I- would never do that as a Judge. I apologize that is the best I can offer you though."
Raising a brow as she tilts her head at that explination. She looks thoughtful again as if not sure if she should ask a question or not but then she just writes down some more stuff and scratches the back of her neck. She shifts a little bit in her seat.
Journey nods to Faith and sits back, looking to Frost, , watching to see what the note is about, though listening to the speaker, he sits back, "True to a point, though that 'foolish skepticism' is accepted Garou Law, 'Intervention of Gaia' is a known outcome of a Punishment Rite, any and all safeguards aside, Rare, yes, even for rarely performed Rites, but known to happen." Taking a breath, "That said, there is also a burden of Judgement. Performing a Punishment Rite comes at the end of the process of Justice. Or that is the hope, at least, the intention. Selection of the Rite and performance of it is rather expected to come after determination of guilt, and is situational in the extreme." He looks to Dragomir as he reads the question and nods to Frost, "Situational, once more. Factors are considered, I know, Premeditation. Establishing of a pattern. How long has the offense been going on, what is the severity of the offense." He starts looking around, "The offender is also considered, Is this a Cub, murdering a fellow Cub in a frenzy? Happens. Is it a Cliath stealing a Fetish? An Athro speaking knowing lies of another Garou? Did the Garou know better? Is this someone who was trusted and knowing violated that trust over and over again, causing harm in a long term way over a great number of people?" He makes a little motion up and down. "It's a hard thing to scale, but it's situational."
Dragomir motions his half-gloved hand towards Journey and says, "I am sure with Monica, though it was before my time.. there was efforts made to correct her behavior. She was spoken to, or warned. I am not familiar with how that was handled entirely, but I imagine various steps were taken before the punishment ritual was performed. Some progression of intent and ramification was made. That is how the process is supposed to work." he nods his head, and looks around then. Then Dragomir motions the crystal javelin up again, and brings it back down to gavel the end on the marble dias a few times. "I think that is a good a time as any to conclude tonight's lesson. I hope you have all taken away something valuable from this, and if you have questions - I encourage you to come speak with myself, one of your Elders, or the Truthcatcher for more information at any time."
