2019.05.01: Master of Challenges

Master of Challenges
A group discussion about Challenges lead by the Master of the Challenge, Dragomir.
IC Date	2019.05.02
Players	Faith, Cait, Raven, Mora, Lleutrim, Ryla, Dusk, Xavier, Against the Wind, Troy Jameson, Cash Montgomery, Jake, and Dragomir as ST
Location	Caern - Amphitheater
Spheres	Gaian Garou Kinfolk

Amphitheater - Deep Forest

The stone pathway slopes gently down into a natural hollow bordered by trees and large enough to hold most of the Sept's population at once. To either side of this large main aisle the slope of the earth has been carved and banked into huge grassy steps around the curve of the hollow. Set with split-log seating, each step is low and wide enough to provide even Crinos visitors with ample view and leg room while still allowing others to pass, until finally reaching the flat earth before a great clam-shell stage.

One massive piece of raw marble rising out of the ground has its top flat and polished, with large stairs cut into its sides for easy access by Garou and Kinfolk alike. Backing the stage, the half dome is formed by large slabs of molded stone, directing the acoustics of those being witnessed to the farthest rows of spectators.

Whether by monthly moots, minor plays, challenges, or even just local Galliard practice, the ampitheater remains active and ringing with music and dramatics. The evidence of past epics can be found carved into the backs of seating steps, etched into the split logs and in some places even gouged into the stage itself.

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It is now currently Thu May 02 16:12:15 2019, PDT.

Current Phase: New Moon, Rage diff 8 (7 if Ragabash and/or Crinos)

SCENE: Challenges

WHERE: Caern - Amphitheater

Once again the clam-shell stage has been setup for tonight's training session. Perhaps interestingly, there's a number of things on tables here - from food and drinks, to weapons, to puzzles, and much more. A keen observer might note that many items that might be used in a challenge, are present - even chess boards, an Litany scrolls. Circles have been made for sparring, and even two chairs facing directly at one another have been setup. All in all, it's a catch-all for everything one could want in a challenge, or at least - most everything.

Dragomir stands in the midst, always one to dress eccentrically in some fashion or another. Tonight is a lion-hide loin cloth, which hangs in various lengths around his thighs. Barefoot and unconcerned. Half his torso is covered in the tattoos and wyld glyphs, leaving it almost completely covered and the other half of the man is bare of ink entirely. Strong arms crossed over his chest, to convey the ying-yang effect of his view on the world. The man's hair has been slicked back by what appears to be blood and his face painted for War. Only the boar-tusk necklace, and a leather armband of Eagle feathers on his right arm to accompany this image.

He stands imposingly, confident, and quiet as others arrive. The many scars of his many battles litter his body, wounds the would easily have killed lesser Warriors, but he wears with pride on display. This is a Warrior, the Master of the Challenge.

Lleutrim arrives in Glabro, large and imposing though not quite as barbaric and cool in his attire as Dragomir this evening. The Galliard is garbed only in a short military kilt of muted green and blue hunting tartan. A chain with a black leather sporin hangs down the front with white hair, bones, teeth and claws of some huge beast for ornament. Lleu's feet are bare as he walks in to join the others and listen to the Master of the Challenge's discussion this evening. Awful scars mar his bare arms and torso as well as a few strange tattoos. Battle Singer takes up a position slightly to one side and remains standing to observe.

"Come closer - for I shall only teach the boldest amongst you. Those that cower in times of peace, are sure to hide in times of War. Tonight we discuss perhaps the most sacred and important tradition we have. A concept that has been with us since the beginning of our Nation's time, born of our connection with wolves, and transcended into the Legendary Realm itself as part of our Great Memory, recorded in the Silver Accords." Dragomir begins his boasting announcement, speaking loud and confidently about a topic he is clearly passionate about.

Eye of the Storm stares out to those nearby, and bellows, "What is, a Challenge? What does it mean to you? Why is it important?" he asks, opening it up for anyone brave enough to answer, almost.. like a challenge. (Get it? Wink Wink).

"Challenges are how we, as Garou, determine who is fit for a position, who is has the right to be correct and influence the traditions, decisions and path our people follow." Raven barks up almost immediately, popping to her feet.

Against the Wind strides on all four large paws down to the front, he chuffs out in lupus.

Mora pulls closer like asked "A challenge is..." she stops as she likes Ravens reply bt something comes to mind "You can challenege some one that wronged you also."

It's not often that Cash makes his way out to the Sept. Not often at all. Every once in awhile, however, it is good to check in with family, even in passing. Which is why this afternoon after he'd be let free to his own time, Cash had made the detour out here rather than heading home. Nevermind that he's still in his service greens, he didn't feel like going all the way home just to change and then come out here. When he'd approached, however, it became clear that something was going on over in the ampitheatre. Forever curious, the Marine makes his way over to the ampitheatre and takes a seat in the back, staying quiet and trying to get a sense of what's going on. Kin are meant to be seen, not heard, right? Right. Or something. He'll accept the logic for now.

As it appears that may speak up, Troy pauses as Raven beats him to it. He looks pensive for a moment, then goes back to settling his hands on his knees as he listens, curious to the response to her answer. He runs a hand back through his hair, brushing some away from his blue eyes.

Striding into the amphitheatre, likely late, Cait is dressed in a pair of tight exercise shorts and a sports bra, and some sports shoes. She'll walk with a bounce to her step and appears to be putting her hair in a ponytail as she walks, a huge grin on her face as she gets closer. Once she's closer, she'll stop nearby, hands on her hips as she looks over at Raven who answers Eye of the Storm.

On time and ready to go is Xavier, wearing a pair of long shorts and a t-shirt. Upon hearing about the challenges and seeing the rings for sparring and the weapons but also the acrruments, the young cub cocks his head to the side. A lot of the Garou and kin here most he knows, which is a welcome. Though why does Dragomir looks so scary?

When the question is asked by the Master of Challenges, many voices speak up in turn, he too steps forward, no more being worried. "I'm Xavier Rosario, Born on two legs, under the new moon, to the Children of Gaia." he introduces himself. He focuses his eyes on Dragomir and feeling his birth moon upon him, "A Challenge can often be used as a way to settle a disagreement between two parties." he says.

Dragomir nods, "Determine who is fit for a position.. alright." He points towards Raven when she answers first, and then turns to point a half-gloved finger towards Against the Wind, "Good intro. Purity of one's actions.. lets come back to that." Then he motions his hand back to point towards Mora and steps towards her, "What?.. wronged you.. ahh, yes, absolutely." And then he hears Xavier and he grins, "Good cub! You are all correct."

Then Dragomir walks closer to everyone, and reaches out to pick up a blue bouncy ball from the table, and tosses it to Lleutrim, "What about if Battle Singer has something I want?" he looks around and asks, "Can he be challenged for it?"

Lleutrim drops his arms and catches the bouncy blue ball that's thrown to him! He bares his teeth in a feral grin, his glabro voice dropped a bass, "Aye! Challenge me for /this/ ball, or for my mate, or anything else I have ... if you dare." His icy grey eyes look out upon all the rest of them gathered here to listen to Dragomir. The shirtless Fianna in his kilt looks ready for a nice challenge to spice things up. The ball he tosses up in the air slightly a few times to try and make it all the more enticing.

There is a light flurry of motion in the back area of the Amphitheater where Zephyr's Hand usually sits. Most won't even notice it. Only the very astute will see it's Defiant-Storm, sitting quietly in the shadows, simply observing.

Cash remains in his spot in the back, but his eyes track the movement of that ball keenly. There's a small smirk then and he leans back to rest his feet on the row of seating in front of him, one ankle crossed over the other. There's an instinctive reach toward one pocket, but then he stops himself, instead folding his hands together in his lap.

Mora says "Many storys of people challenging for that in the past and they always end up bad for many people."

Cait continues to stand, hands on hips as she watches, an amused grin coming across her features. "Yes, you can be challenged for something, but not in times of war...", she'll reply, and as she sees Lleutrim cheerfully tossing the ball, she looks like she's about to reply, but then her attention is drawn towards someone else who had entered and she looks distracted for a brief moment. Shiny?!?

Clearing his throat, Troy speaks up. "You can challenge him for the ball if it is an honorable challenge and it adheres to the tenants of the litany. Challenging him for the ball just to have the ball isn't seen as honorable, but if the ball was perhaps a Fetish and Battle Singer has been found unworthy to have ownership of the Fetish due to poor behavior, it would be deemed fit to issue challenge. But to issue challenge simply for wanting something without good reason could be seen as dishonorable."

Against the Wind looks between the two, <Depends. What is it? is it something that already belongs to the Tribe Fianna? Is it something that traditional belongs to the Tribe Silver Fang? Is it something that was just recovered, so the Litany says to the greatest station...But in truth if you are two wise warriors of Gaia who really care about the war you would both know who should have the item and give it up willingly.>

Retaking her seat next to Troy, Raven twists to watch as the ball is tossed and Battle Singer goes on his little rant. It makes her grin a bit and as Troy speaks up she looks back to him and clasps him on the shoulder for a moment, nodding, though she says nothing.

Oh aye, Battle Singer will also give a faint nod to the answers given, pleased with them. He looks to see if any others will speak ere Lleu will look back to Dragomir. The ball he tosses lightly a few more times and then stills in his large hands.

Dragomir smirks slightly at Battle Singers response and nods, looking around as the others chime in and he studies with those intense blue eyes of his. "Lleutrim is right.. he can be challenged for anything he has." Then he turns and looks towards Mora and nods, "Many stories indeed.. both good and bad." Dragomir points towards Cait and says, "Great point.. hold onto that, lets come back to it."

Then Dragomir looks towards Troy and he lofts his brow, "Who determines if there is a good reason or not for a challenge?.. he has a shiny blue ball, and I want it.. because I can make it bounce better than he can. Is that not a good enough reason?" He turns to look towards Against the Wind and grins, "Sure, there are tribal claims.. there are many -reasons- for challenging. One can come up with any number of justifications for why they wish to challenge for something. Sometimes those reasons are viewed as being honorable, and sometimes they are viewed as being dishonorable. So lets say I want Battle Singers ball, for no other reason than its blue.. and I want it. Not very honorable, right?.. so what? What stops me from beating his ass, and taking it?"

Quirking his head to the side as he sees the blue ball be caught by Battle Singer, he looks to Dragomir as he asks the question. In his mind he runs through the many scenarios on how one would challenge for the ball. It seems like his train of though matches many of those here. "You can't challenge just because. Like many have stated, there has to be a complete full reason for why any of us would Challenge one another for anything that one another have. It can't be pointless or petty though, but I could be wrong."

"Nothing." Cash says suddenly from the back, voice heavy with a genteel Carolina accent, "Save your care for your own reputation. Or, perhaps, Respecting Those Beneath You, depending on Rank and circumstance." Truthfully, Cash doesn't know a lot about the specific ranks and positions of the people in this Sept. "Challenges are the backbone of Garou society, and Garou society has always been Might Makes Right, whether people like the idea very much or not. Abuse the challenge, however, and you'll have a whole lot of Philodox, and Ragabash, just waiting to get their hands on you." Okay, so the kinfolk isn't so good at 'seen not heard.' He tried.

"Nothing is stopping you from challenging and taking his ball. Due to your rank, it would be your right as Elder to ask him for it honorably. You out rank him. But, those of us in the audience may not see you in an honorable light. It would cause dissent and mistrust. What if you come for /our/ balls next!?" Troy calls out as his brows lift higher. "We should /protect/ our balls because obviously the Elder does not respect those beneath him!" He calls out with a grin on his face. "He takes what he /wants/. Perhaps he is not as wise and honorable as we once thought he was!" He says in his own Galliardy fashion for the dramatics. "First he will take our balls, then next our baseball bats! Soon our ice skates!"

Ryla has been here the whole time. Really. The stealthy no moon, nudges Lleutrim very lightly so he will note that she is there afterall. No words yet from the usually talkative woman as she listens.

Mora says to Cash "Its good thing the challgened one can say what it is. I am glad for game crafts and such, and thankfully we have phildoxes to say if its a fair one."

Jake can't help but grin at the animated conversation and he leans forward slightly, obviously quite interested in what everyone has to say.

The large white and red wolf cocks his head a bit as if milling over an answer before chuffing, <Its a ball, it has nothing to do with the war. It is a waste to challenge.>

Cait looks back to Dragomir and then Lleutrim and smiles as she listens to the discussion. "Well, if you take the ball and it has been decided by the spirits that what you did was a foul deed, then you would be called out on it. Also, people will speak of your misdeed... and your honorable renown will be called into question... " She'll cross her arms over her chest as she stands there, for once, not hopping from foot to foot, she's actually pretty engaged in this discussion, her expression showing her enjoyment of it.

Dusk sneaks his way back in, taking a seat in the back to be less obtrusive.

Lleutrim laughs outright at what /Troy/ says, "I will fight for my balls, thank you very much." Ryla's nudge gets the half naked glabro Galliard to put an arm compantionably around the slender Silver Fang for a moment. A brief, arm armed hug and he offers /her/ the ball if she'd like to play with it. Amusement is in his gaze and the line of his mouth.

Dragomir listens and considers, nodding his head, "Ahh.. so I can challenge him for the ball, but that makes me dishonorable if I win. So what if it was my ball, and Battle Singer wants to challenge me for it? In his eyes, it's a symbol.. and he values it, because it reminds him of some great Galliard love song or something. To me, it is just a blue ball that I have had for a long time." He starts walking around, looking from face to face, then he hears Against the Wind and nods, "You're right.. it's just a ball. Lets say it was something more than a ball.." he ducks his half-gloved hand back behind his back and pulls out a fang dagger out of thin air and holds it up in the air.

"Lets up the game. Battle Singer, wants the Fang Dagger that Defiant-Storm gifted me." He displays the beautifully crafted bone knife for all to see. "Surely this is a prize worthy.. is it honorable now for Battle Singer to challenge for it?" he rocks it back and forth, like he's taunting Lleutrim with the blade.

Mora looks to the fang dagger almost intranced with it "What if he thought you were not worthy of it due to a mistake you did. I seen that once about a old powerfull klave once." she fixes her self and then says "Has that happened here before?"

It seems the Marine (Cash) believes he's given his necessary input to the conversation at hand. It's interesting enough to watch and listen, but he remembers these old fireside lessons. So he just settles back and enjoys the peace of the Septlands - And will probably pipe up again later.

"Courage-at-the-Crossroads, Cliath Homid Child of Gaia under the fullmoon." You know, since she forgot earlier. "You can challenge for anything, but intent is key. Is it better for the Nation for you to have the fetish or for him? Who would use it most effectively? Someone who challenges for greed and selfish promotion is going to quickly come under scruteny and if they are not able to perform or fulfill their claims then they will end up facing challenges of their own to have the weapon taken from them." Raven states, really just glomming things together from other people.

Eye of the Storm nods, walking around and gives a nod of respect towards Jake when he passes, before he turns back around and says, "The reality is.. anyone, can challenge, anyone, for anything, at any time?" he makes the last part a question, and then he lifts his half-gloved hand up and points towards Cait and says, "But Ain't Dead Yet said we cannot challenge during a time of war? We've been at War with the Wyrm since I became Garou. I'm pretty sure the war hasn't ended yet. So.." he looks around and asks, "That means no one can challenge until we defeat the Wyrm, right?"

"Again, yeah, he can challenge you. However, the results of those actions will be in the pudding... what will the spirits say, and what will the nation say of this challenge. Will they deem him too unworthy to hold this dagger over you? If he does defeat you for the dagger, does it mean he deserves it more?" Cait will shrug at this point and then move to sit in a graceful drop to the ground, cross-legged. She'll glance over at Cash occasionally, hard not to.

Ryla looks at the ball offered and grins at Lleutrim. The hug is welcomed from the much bigger guy to her, and she takes that ball and holds it in her hand nicely. She nods with what she hears about challenges, and agrees. The ball gets squeezed just a bit.

Xavier is sitting down with the others, he is taking his time to process all of this information that is coming at him. The Challenges for Xavier is major and complicated, still the cub tries to continue following the conversation. With the ball out of the equation and the subject of the Fang Dagger come into play, Xavier doesn't have a reaction to the weapon at all, it is a nice weapon but he knows he wouldn't challenge for it. "So it all comes down to we challenge anyone for anything?" he asks trying to understand. "Regardless if one is worthy or not?"

"How else do you prove you're worthy?" Cash asks then from the back, smirking just a little. "And, sorry, I'm gathering introductions were a thing - Cash Montgomery-Regan, Fianna kin." Seems genuinely contrite too, at least in tone.

Against the Wind exhales a large breath, <The Master of Challege of the Sept would make the final call on if the Sept is to allow challenges or not. Only the Alpha or Warder would overrule him, but that would be rare.>

Lleutrim's attention is primarily upon Dragomir. Eye of the Storm'rhya all decked out in his blood, lion skin loin cloth, bones, feathers, tats. Just watching him makes the Fianna Galliard bare his teeth once more in a feral grin, listening. He turns his head to look out over all of the others gathered and interacting in the discussion. His gaze snags on Cash, taking in the details of that man's attire. There his attention stays focused for a time, not knowing who the stranger is among them even as he picks out certain details that are quite familiar. It distracts him until Lleu pull his attention back to the topic at hand. He doesn't /look/ to have particular interest in Dragomir's fang dagger as the discussion continues.

As he listens, Troy has gone a bit quiet, soaking in the opinions of everyone, curiously watching the back and forth between the Elders and those of lower rank.

From where she's sitting, Cait will pipe up curiously, "Maybe it's during times of 'active' war. Where it is not calm, and not even remotely peaceful and the challenge would just cause too much change during a time where stability is needed?" Her tone is a statement and question both, and she'll look around before looking back up at the elder as he passes by.

Dragomir begins to clap his half-gloved hands and nods towards Against the Wind, "Absolutely correct. All challenges may be brought before the Master of the Challenge in the event that the honor of them are in question. It is the duty of the Master of the Challenge to determine whether a challenge should or should not be allowed. Very good Against the Wind."

Then the Elder Silver Fang turns and begins pacing back through the crowd and looking around. He gestures a hand towards Cash and nods in greeting, before he says, "The Fianna kin asks, how else we would prove ourselves worthy to one another. So comes the question of what does it mean, to be in a time of war? When is it okay to challenge? We know we can challenge anyone, anytime, for anything.. if we are willing to weigh our honor on the challenge of course. So when can we do it?"

Dragomir looks around and says, "Right here.. right now.. we are not battling the Wyrm at this moment. There is no immediate threat at hand, so if Battle Singer wished to challenge me for my Fang Dagger now." He lifts his half-gloved hand to point towards Cait when she says it, ".. alternatively, if the Caern was to be attacked RIGHT NOW.. and Battle Singer wanted to use my Fang Dagger in battle against the Wyrm, now would NOT be the appropriate time for him to issue a challenge. Make sense?"

"Forgive me," Cash pipes up then, "But is not the Tenant that the //Alpha// may not be Challenged in a Time of War?" No censure, no demand, "Would that not mean that unless it was a member of your pack, or if you were, say, the Sept Alpha, that you could be challenged regardless? Or does this Sept extend the term 'Alpha' to the highest station at the time and place?" Legitimate question, that.

Mora speaks up "If we were attacked he could ask. But a challenge no that would be a bad time.... But that is my opion and something I would stand by."

Dusk had been, until that moment, silent and seated. But when Cash brings up literal rather than figuritive, Dusk leans back in his chair, intertwines his fingers and smiles broadly.

"I think that's Semantics.." Cait will look over at Cash as he speaks up. "Challenges when you're trying to fight and survive... probably ain't a good idea. Bad timing. You know, like when you bring a new girlfriend or boyfriend to a party your ex is at the day after you break up? Kinda bad timing that." She'll grin and then wink before looking back at Dragomir attentively, she's really enjoying this discussion!

Troy lets out a soft huff of amusement at Cait under his breath. He leans in to bump his shoulder against Raven's.

Raven is jostled and her sunglasses fall down onto her nose, so she bumps right back with a bit of a smile, but just sort of leans against Troy for the time being while she listens. She uses a finger to push her sunglasses back up into her hair.

Dragomir lifts his hand to point towards Cash with one of those half-gloved fingers and starts to walk his way, "Excellent point. I am not his Alpha at the moment. I am not the Sept Alpha. I am higher rank, but the Litany does not say you may not challenge someone of higher rank during a time of war, right?" He starts to walk towards Cash, through the others and listens to hear if someone will object. "So, what do you all think?.. the Caern is under attack.. and Battle Singer really wants to use my Fang Dagger for this battle. He's an ex-Marine, so asking nicely isn't his strong suit.. he wants to challenge for it. What do you think? It doesn't violate the Litany, as Cash has pointed it, at least not the literal translation. What do you think?" The half-moon turns it back towards the crowd, asking them. "Am I obligated to accept his challenge? We are talking about a weapon to fight the Wyrm here. The Caern is in danger. Surely we want that weapon in the hands of the mightiest warrior, right?" He points towards Cait and says, "Does this fall into the purview of Semantics as Ain't Dead Yet says?.. Does this become a question of Battle Singer's honor for challenging at the time he did?" he looks around, intrigued by the younger Garou and kinfolk's answers it seems.

Glancing over at Troy, Raven murmurs quietly, "It's just stupid. If it was that important it should have already been done." It isn't really meant to be a full on answer.

From the look of it, Jake's also really enjoying this discussion. He remains totally focused on the conversation, grinning slightly as Dragomir continues to teach.

Giving a nod of his head, Troy says, "If the Caern is currently under attack, then it would not be an honorable challenge. It would be during war. We would be better off coming together to create a plan of action to win together, as opposed to thinking we can single handedly win a war with a single dagger, no matter how powerful it is. There is no wisdom in squabbling over tools when lives are at stake."

"Practical? No, certainly not. A good idea? Nope - It's surely Unwise, even if it isn't deemed Dishonorable. Not all challenges are about Honor, though." Cash says, shrugging one shoulder. Dragomir's approach doesn't seem to bother him at all. "But that's what the Cracking of the Bone is for, is being pissed about the Unwise challenge later. Though, you would also not be obligated to accept his Challenge - Unless, of course, you've some sort of Totem ban that says otherwise." He stops himself there, though there's more he could say on the topic, instead he addresses another point, "Fair cop, though, about the Marines."

Dragomir nods slowly and dramatically, appreciating Against the Winds words and then turning to look towards the others. He chuckles at something Raven says and offers, "You would hope.. right? Yet most people avoid challenging, and when the time comes.. its often too late." Then he points towards Troy and says, "Alright.. " nodding towards Cash and says, "So we agree this isn't the best time.. maybe not the Wisest course of action. Honorable, maybe.. who knows. For whatever reason, maybe Battle Singer thinks I'm old and weak, and he can do better with it. Either way.. he challenges me."

Then he turns and hops back up on the stage, and turns back to look towards the others. A half-gloved hand lifts to point towards Battle Singer, as he requesting him to step up and demonstrate a challenge for the others.

"Could he yes." Xavier says, "But from a tactical sense and common sense wise, why not just ask to use the blade and give it back once the fight is over." he states. "I feel that Challenges should make sense because the only time I see a Challenge being done during war time is if that leader is careless and Garou are being killed under that Garou's leadership." Xavier looks to Raven, Troy and Cash, taking in their perspective which is why he's not asking a lot, sometimes it's good to sit and listen as well, which Xavier does do.

Against the Wind lifts his massive head as a faint howl is heard off in the distance to the east. Against the Wind swings his gaze back to the Master of Challenege and offers a motion of deference before moving quickly out of the area.

The former Marine laughs, "Aye, that would be stupid. Squabbling over a challenge when both would be needed to defend the Caern. Such things are to be sorted out before hand, as said." Lleutrim gives and upnod to the wisdom of the replies being offered. He leaves Ryla's side to go and get himself a cold beer and a moment later returns with a tall can of Guinness to enjoy.

Oh, and /then/ Dragomir singles him out to join him on the stage. Drat. The Fianna doesn't even get a chance to taste the Guinness ere he hands it off to Ryla, or someone else near by if she doesn't want it. Lleutrim bounds up onto the stage to join the Elder Silver Fang.

Dressed only in his kilt and otherwise naked, all his scars and tats bared to the world, the Galliard puffs up his chest and plays his part. Lleu lifts a thick arm and points to Dragomir, "Eye of the Storm'rhya, I Lleutrim Donnachaidh, rite named Battle Singer, Seinneadair Bl??r of the Fianna, born on two legs beneath the Gibbous moon, Adren by rank, and a patrol leader of the Sept of Enduring Spirit here by pretend to challenge you for your Fang Dagger!"

Against the Wind moves to Mystic Valley - Deep Forest

Cash smiles a little, falling quiet again and watching the mock challenge with not-insignificant interest. Again, there's an instinctive reach toward his pocket - And again, he stops himself and refolds his hands.

Ryla takes that beer and holds it for Lleutrim. This will be interesting.

As he watches, Troy gives a wide grin of eager expectation. He shifts up to his knees to get a better look at the pair as he glances between the two barely dressed men. (Men, hide your ladies).

Raven twists around as well to get a better view. A wry grin slips to her lips as she watches those two barely dressed me. (Ladies, hide your men.)

Dragomir watches as Lleutrim comes in for the pretend challenge and introduces himself and declares what he wants. Then he lifts his half-gloved hand to display the dagger in his hand, and growls, "You want my dagger you little shit, you can pull it out of your eye.." he stops all of a sudden and turns to look back towards the others. "Alright, so that's probably not how I am supposed to react. Well, what do you do when you have been challenged by someone?" he asks, looking around at the others. "I mean, I can't just kill him and hide his body in the Umbra, right?"

The Elder Silver Fang spreads his hands out to the side, and turns to face the others, "Who even decides the rules? Does it have to be combat? I mean.. he's a former Marine, maybe he can kick my ass.." he grins, ".. maybe."

And yes, that is epic timing. LLeutrim is standing on the stage, "challenging" the elder Silverfang over a prized possession, while the later wears.. is that? Faith's eyes perceptibly widen, and she simply can't hide the smile. It curls her lips, settles into her eyes, and the kinswoman simply basks in the scene. Hands perch on her hips as the woman stands at the top of the amphitheatre entrance to enjoy the scene as she murmurs, "Then who would wash my dishes?"

"Doesn't the one who is challenged decide the nature of the challenge? Almost like a sort of defense against some brain dead behemoth going around cutting everyone down to get their stuff?" Raven asks, reaching up to rub her neck a bit, though at Faith's comment a bout of laughter slips from the blonde down in the front row.

"Typically, the Challenged will set the term. And outside arbiter, either the Master of Challenge or a Philodox can be sought, however." Cash says before turning his attention back to the mock challenge, "And if you make this a combat challenge, and as a Marine, if he /doesn't/ kick your ass I will be personally disappointed." There's a wink then, for Lleutrim. At least the kinfolk seem to be in good spirits.

As it appears Raven and Cash has answered, Troy goes back to watching as he straightens up once more. He gives a nod of his head to the Ahroun at his side.

Dragomir listens intently to the answers and considers. He nods his head a few times, and glances over towards Faith when she emerges. "So you're telling me.. if Battle Singer challenges me.. -I- get to pick what the challenge will be?" he laughs and turns back around, looks at Lleutrim and says, "Fashion contest, clearly.. the man's wearing a kilt. Who even wears kilts anymore?" he says, from his lion-skin loin-cloth vantage. He turns to look back towards the others and asks, "That's fair right? I get to pick the terms."

"You get to pick a fair and honorable challenge that is worthy for the right to earn the Fang Dagger. The challenge should be measured and attainable by both parties. If you can't agree, the Master of the Challenge should set the terms." Troy calls out to them.

Lleutrim chuckles and stands at his ease though out of Dragomir's immediate reach. He looks his Elder over, "Nice loincloth." He brushes off his kilt and listens to the various answers offered up, his own head to turn when he hears a familiar voice mention washing dishes! Lleu's face lights up when he sees his mate has arrived. He grins briefly to Faith, then looks back to Dragomir, "So, how will you have it, Eye of the Storm'rhya?"

"Well, that was implied." Raven mutters to Troy.

Faith lifts a hand into the air as she comes down the stairs, the smile having widened at LLeutrim momentarily, but now has dropped into a thoughtful - even stern expression that suggests a more serious comment. She waits to be acknowledge by word of nod. Asking after Troy calls out, "If a challenge involves a fetish, or a sacred piece of land inhabited by spirits, or some other sentient or semi-sentient third party, is the honor of and duty to, if any exists, of the third party taken into account in that determination of what is a worthy challenge?"

THinking about this all, looking at all the parties here, Xavier considers his words carefully. He begins to speak when Troy beats him, "Yeah.." he stammers. Xavier adjusts where he is sitting. The cub is listening during this time, he doesn't have much more to say at this time.

Dragomir listens intently to the answers and considers. He nods his head a few times, and glances over towards Faith when she emerges. "So you're telling me.. if Battle Singer challenges me.. -I- get to pick what the challenge will be?" he laughs and turns back around, looks at Lleutrim and says, "Fashion contest, clearly.. the man's wearing a kilt. Who even wears kilts anymore?" he says, from his lion-skin loin-cloth vantage. He turns to look back towards the others and asks, "That's fair right? I get to pick the terms."

Dragomir considers the answers and offers, "Great points. The terms of the challenge, decided by the challenged, should be fitting of the subject of the challenge. Because,.." he looks around, "All the reasons we said before, about -why- we challenge." He points a half-gloved finger towards Faith and offers, "Good side bar discussion, though generally, the answer is no. Some theurges may argue in contrast, but the spirit of a fetish is not normally consulted in those situations." He answers.

Then he points towards the crowd and says, "Alright.. tonight you are the Master of the Challenge. Battle Singer has challenged, I have accepted.. but my terms are clearly silly, it's not even a fair contest between my fashion and his.. whatever that is. So, overrule me. What is an appropriate challenge for who should wield my Fang Dagger then?"

"You are an Elder and he is an Adren. Clearly you would be the superior fighter and thus have a tremendous advantage over him. But it is your right as a Garou to engage him in combat, especially for a fetish of war. If Lleutrim feels he has the blue balls big enough to take your dagger, then he should show that he deserves it in combat. But, the more honorable and less violent way is to do a Staredown. A contest of wills. That way no party is injured, hopefully, and once decided, you two can go back to the war to protect the Caern." Troy calls out. (re)

"True, Troy. Though, to me ideally, a challenge over something like this should involve tasks, skills or abilities that would prove who would be the best at using the dagger, though in a way that would be fair despite rank or auspice differences." Raven comments.

The fugly Galliard on stage with the scarred face turns to look for Raven. Lleutrim nods, "Aye, my thought exactly. Combat using matched daggers..." he shrugs, "But, a challenge need not be fairly weighted. As Eye of the Storm'rhya has said before, fair doesn't have much to do with reality in war."

Faith has quietly taken a seat after listening to the brief response, and acknowledgement from the stage. She's listening intently, but watching the crowd as much as the main attraction.

"Fair is kind of a relative term, though. Their skill at the task doesn't need to be even, yet at the same time there should be some reasonable expectation that the task isn't so heavily weighted against one of them that it invalidates the challenge due to an obvious winner." Raven responds to the Fuglliard. "I mean, such as the original case that Eye of the Storm'rhya proposed. Obviously he would win the fashion contest despite rank or auspice, so it's simply not really a challenge." Itty bitty smirk.

Eye of the Storm slips the dagger behind his waist on the loincloth and brings his half-gloved hands out to either side. "These are questions that Garou far greater than us have debated for life times. Ponder them.. consider what is honorable and what is not when it comes to challenges. When is the right time, when isn't? Who should and should not be challenged. What is an appropriate challenge, and what is not."

"My name is Dragomir Mihailovich, known as Eye of the Storm. Elder Silver Fang born on two legs beneath the Judge's moon." he slams his half-gloved fist against his chest loud enough to maek an echo in the clamshell stage. "I am this Sept's Master of the Challenge, and I welcome anyone to come to me with challenges, or questions if you wish to learn more. Challenge with Honor." he nods deeply to the crowd, and pats Lleutrim on the back, leaning in to whisper into his ear before he turns to head off.

Dragomir whispers "I look forward to the day you do challenge me."

"Of course, the majority of challanges are done with a simple glance. That curled lip thing. It's over in seconds and nobody gets bloodied, especially with the wolves at the door," Dusk murmurs. His brows raise, his eyes shifting to the floor on his left, "No pun intended," he adds quieter.

Xavier blinks when the judgement of them being the Master of Challenge, a grin spreads along his lips as he looks around to see how this will play out. Looking at the situation as it is, "Even though Eye of the Storm-Rhya spoke to Battle Singer-Rhya in that fashion. The scenario is Battle Singer-Rhya wants the Fang-Dagger and with the situation as it is. Eye of Storm-Rhya does have the right to select the challenge, and with that he doesn't have to choose combat if he doesn't want, he can choose what the Challenge will be." he hopes he's right.

Troy gives a round of applause. "Thank you Eye of the Storm Rhya and Battle Singer Rhya for a wonderful performance and lesson tonight!" He says with a bright smile on his face.

With the announcement of the session ending, Raven joins Troy in the applause, though as she does the woman rises to her feet. Not really for a standing ovation, but as Dragomir begins to head off, the Cliath begins to head in a vaguely similar direction after pausing to say something to Troy.

There's a small wave and a smile given then Elder as he turns to depart, but Cash keeps his seat. Doesn't seem to have any inclination to move at all. Nope, he's just going to lean back further and look up through the foliage and various wonders of the Septlands. There's a deep breath, and the kinfolk just exists there for a long moment.

There is a look of amusement and a snort from Troy. "I don't even know what you got. That's hardly fair." He says as he rolls his shoulders to loosen them up.

Whatever Dragomir says low to him, Lleutrim turns his head to listen and he grins, "Aye, that'll be an interesting day." A hand is likewise clasped on the Elder Silver Fang's shoulder ere Dragomir turns to depart. It's been another good discussion!

Lleu turns and heads off of the stage, jumping down. He'll goes right to his lovely wife to greet Faith with a kiss and slip an arm around her. Still in Glabro he rumbles low, "I am so pleased to see you here."

Xavier frowns and claps along with the others, "Thank you for the lesson." he says too the Elder. "I will be here for the next one." he says as he offers a bow of his head to Dragomir.

Turning to reply to Troy as she continues on, Raven laughs, "A winery? A kick ass Jeep?" She waves a hand at him, dismissing the other Coggie before turning back to the direction she was headed.

"I want that Jeep!" Troy calls out after her, then starts to head off with a grin after giving Lleu a nudge on the shoulder on his way past. "Nice kilt. Goes great with the abs." He says with a chuckle as he tips a wink to Faith, then off he goes.

Dragomir walks over, taking a moment to nod towards Faith, "Good seeing you Faith. I am tired, and need to hunt.. we will catch up soon." he turns to start to head out, another respectful nod given towards Jake as he goes - and leaps into his lupus form mid-air and lands on his paws as a silvery white wolf and pads off swiftly from the amphitheater now.

The kinswoman gets to her feet and gives a wave to the departing elder before Faith turns to accept the one armed scoop and a peck from LLeutrim. Troy gets a quick wave with a smile as well. "I couldn't miss it.." offers Faith with a soft smile. "Sorry I got off work late. They had a big bust and I offered to do the paperwork to keep out of the processing area."

Gathering his things, Dusk glances sideways towards Lleu and Faith's rejoining before glancing away again, thoughtful. Shuffling out of the seating, he makes his way out as well.

Troy gets a laugh from Lleu, "We can always wrap you up in a Clan McTablecloth, Troy! You needn't be jealous."

Another reach for that same pocket, and again Cash stops himself. This time, however, he actually hits the back of his own hand with an audible snap. Shaking his head, he folds his hands under his head as he stares upward.

Grinning at Lleu over his shoulder, Troy tips a wink to him. "I'd be honored to represent Clan McTableCloth, for I am sure they are fierce and honorable as it's namesake!"