Difference between revisions of "2020-11-12: Suffer for Your Feelings"
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− | Inside the bag is a pair of orange tie-dyed silk boxer shorts.<ref>'''OOC Note:''' the boxers Parker gave Jaycob are basically [https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Tie-Silk-Boxers-Royal/dp/B00AW16T02 these]. | + | Inside the bag is a pair of orange tie-dyed silk boxer shorts.<ref>'''OOC Note:''' the boxers Parker gave Jaycob are basically [https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Tie-Silk-Boxers-Royal/dp/B00AW16T02 these].</ref> |
Parker just watches Jaycob as he looks into the bag and at its contents, she appears to be waiting for a reaction. | Parker just watches Jaycob as he looks into the bag and at its contents, she appears to be waiting for a reaction. |
Latest revision as of 17:12, 12 November 2020
Suffer for Your Feelings[1] | |
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Parker visits Jaycob bearing a gift; they have brunch, share art and then talk; Parker offends Jaycob in the end and they part on tense terms | |
IC Date | November 12, 2020 |
IC Time | mid-morning |
Players | Jaycob and Parker |
Location | Jaycob's rental unit at Leisureland Mobile Estates |
Its no longer early on the 12th of November but its still far from midday as Parker walks, in homid form, from her home in Leisureland Mobile Estates to the two-hundred block and then up to unit 204. She's dressed casually but nicely with light gray tights that have an integral, asymmetric, red, black and gray plaid skirt with a white, see-though lace shirt over a salmon pink bandeau-style bra and a pair of dark gray, leather boots that appear to be made of straps cover her feet. She is carrying a nondescript, khaki colored cloth bag with rope-like handles as she climbs the steps to Jaycob's trailer's door. She quietly ascends the steps and firmly raps on the door.
Music plays, in the early morning, with the faint scent of food cooking wafting through the seams of the door. Bacon, from the smell, it seems. As Spider Parker knocks on his door, Jaycob peeks up from his work and quickly dashes after the door. Carefully pulling the door open to peek outside and spy Petewoman, his lips curl into a soft smile and he swings the door more open, revealing himself to be wearing a loose, collared red tee shirt that is left untucked, and unbuttoned, with a plain white tee shirt on under that. A pair of dark grey sweat pants cover his legs, and simple ankle high socks on his feet. "Come on in. I was just making breakfast."
Stepping into the house, Parker says, "Seems a bit late for breakfast." She glances around the place again as she asks, "How late do you sleep in?" The bag swings loosely as she swings her arm, almost as if there was nothing, or at least nothing of consequence in it.
Once Parker is inside, Jaycob closes the door behind her and quickly dashes to where the food is cooking, bacon in a pan while a pot nearby boils and bubbles. He reaches for a nearby utensil and begins to stir at the boiling water. "Well... Brunch, I guess. I only woke up half an hour ago or so." He offers, peeking back up at her as he gestures for the couch. "Make yourself at home."
Parker chuckles somewhat darkly and asks, "Are you sure you want to offer that to me, knowing what I am, Jayden?" as she flops back onto his sofa and puts her shod feet up on the coffee table in front of the sofa. "What're you fixing?" she also asks as she sets the nondescript bag on the cushion next to her.
"Just don't poop webs all over the place, and it'd be preferable for you not to eat me." Jaycob easily counters as he reaches down and turns the knob on the stove, turning off the fire for the pot. He then bends down to find a strainer which he places in the sink. "Homemade mac and cheese with bacon and eggs." He muses, shifting a touch as the song plays in the background. Five Finger Death Punch.
"Extrude, not poop. Silk is not excrement," Parker says somewhat defensively. "Also, I replenished my supply of blood last night," she says before asking, "But I wouldn't mind trying some of that if you happen to have made enough to share?"
At that, Jaycob chuckles softly as he continues to prepare the meal, working in the cheese with seasonings, and pouring in the egg and diced bacon. "Then I think we'll be okay with you hanging around every now and then." He muses openly, stirring the pot some more until the content are thoroughly mixed. Then he shifts and begins to pull down a pair of bowls and some spoons. "Sure thing."
Parker pats the bag next to her on the sofa to indicate it as she says, "I've got something for you here also by the way." After speaking she just sits there, relaxed with her feet up and inhaling the scent of the meal being prepared and smiles appreciatively.
Once everything is ready to go, with food portioned out for each of them, Jaycob starts to make his way back into the living room, handing off one bowl to her as he sits down with his bowl. "Oh?" He muses, peeking towards the bag as she pats it, as he digs into his food. "What is it? And... What for?" He murmurs, after having finished his first bite.
Parker takes the offered bowl and digs into it while being asked questions about the bag and mmms at the flavor. "You'll find out when you get the bag," she says, "After we eat. And its because of something you said last time I came over."
The unanswered question has Jaycob arching a brow back at Parker while he munches away at the meal, shifting and leaning back into his seat on the couch so he faces her more directly. "What -did- I say last time you came over?" He muses openly, peeking down at the bag as he takes another spoonful of the food into his mouth.
Parker laughs at the question and then takes another bite of brunch. She shakes her head and, after swallowing that bite, says, "If you can't remember then you'll just have to wait," another small bite is then followed with, "I guess you were too uncomfortable with your level of attire to remember," before she resumes her full focus on the meal.
Wrinkling up his nose back at Parker, Jaycob swallows his food, and then sticks his tongue out at her in response. "To be fair, I was a bit more focused on making sure you didn't try to eat me." He explains and then shakes his head lightly. "I certainly wasn't expecting to be visited, half naked, by someone I barely knew. But I'm not uncomfortable with -being- half naked around people."
"I wouldn't gain anything by eating you that I couldn't get other ways," Parker says and then, almost self-contradictory, she ponders, "However, if I needed to top off my blood supply and you were willing... I might ask to drink from you from time to time." She says this and then resumes eating the brunch prepared by her host.
Arching a brow back at Parker as she speculates on what might be gained from eating him... Jaycob continues to eat his food, remaining thoughtfully silent for a while as he goes. "Is this some... Weird method of flirting?" He finally asks, peeking back at his bowl as he eats.
Answering quite honestly, Parker says, "No, but I understand it is quite pleasurable. Guy last night got an erection while I drank," and then she makes eye contact as she asks, "There's a whole subculture of people who like to be bled, did you know that?" She then finishes the bowl of bacon, egg and cheesy pasta. "That was good, thank you," she adds as she lowers her feet to the floor and sets the now empty bowl down on the table.
Another chuckle follows, Jaycob finishing his food and setting the empty bowl aside as he leans back into the couch some more. "Not exactly my kink, but whatever works for them." He muses openly, and lets out a soft yawn. "Oh, yeah no problem." Then he points towards the bag, making eye contact with Parker. "So, what's in the bag?"
Parker nods. "I don't do it for pleasure," she says, explaining further with, "For us there is no pleasure in the drinking, it provides us opportunity and the lack of any blood supply is to be weak." She flings the bag at Jaycob saying, "Catch!" without warning and with a hint of a laugh following it as she says, "Its not good to be weakened that way."
"For them." Jaycob echoes softly, repeating a critical part of his statement from before. Though as she explains more, he nods softly, and then shifts in an attempt to catch the bag. He misses, and it ends up smacking him in the face, leaving him blinking for a moment and then grinning softly. "Ow." He offers, and then starts to unzip the bag and peek inside.
Inside the bag is a pair of orange tie-dyed silk boxer shorts.[2]
Parker just watches Jaycob as he looks into the bag and at its contents, she appears to be waiting for a reaction.
Underwear. Which might make the situation even -more- confusing, depending on how one looks at the conversation. As Jaycob pulls out the boxers, holding them up, his lips curl into that naturally pouty smile of his as he peeks towards Parker. "I'm definitely getting the impression there is some... Hidden meaning behind this that I'm just not catching." He says with a hint of humor in his tone, and then he leans back into his seat some more. "But, thank you."
"You are welcome," Parker says while at the same time seeming confused by his confusion. "You said you hadn't ever worn silk. I figured that since you wear underwear that would be the best option to make you something out of silk," she explains, "Plus, smaller items are easier to make quickly."
There is a blink of thought at the comment, Jaycob peeking back at Parker for a moment, and then his lips curl into amusement again as he nods his head. "Yes, yes I do wear underwear." He offers with a playful chuckle as he rises to his feet with the boxers still held. "I'm going to try them on." He informs her, and then starts to make his way back into the back room.
"Very good," Parker says and adds, "I'll wait out here," having enough good sense to think that maybe Jaycob needed reassurance of that.
Even to spite his making his way back into his bedroom for the sake of privacy and modesty, Jaycob doesn't actually close the door, though with the hallway angle it might be hard for Parker to actually see anything as he changes his clothes. He's not wearing anything particularly hard to remove, so he returns sans his sweat pants shortly after, with the new boxers worn around his otherwise naked waist. As he steps into the living room, his gaze is down at the boxers as he spins a touch, showing them off. "Nice. Very comfortable!"
Parker nods. "Good, they should be. The hardest part was figuring out the right way to do the tie-dying," she says and explains, "I found a producer of organic and hypoallergenic dyes that I found sets well in the silk."
Plopping back down into the couch next to her, as though perhaps to prove a point, Jaycob settles into the seat with his body towards her as he leans into the couch. "Yeah, they fit well too." He offers, peeking down at the boxers and then back up at her. "Thanks again. I appreciate the gift."
"Again, you are welcome, its the first time I've made a garment for anyone else with this weight and weave of silk," Parker says as she reaches over and feels the hem at the lower end of the shorts closest to her. She smiles as her hand moves away from Jaycob and his new underwear while she says, "I'm glad that you like it." She then asks, "Do you think it would sell?" and further explains, "I'm thinking of preserving these for when I open my own shop rather than selling them at Velvet Dreams though."
With Parker's hand practically laying in his lap, Jaycob's body reacts with an expectant arousal forming quite visibly beneath his newly gifted boxers. Otherwise, he shifts a bit as though not quite knowing where the gesture might be going before her hand withdraws. "Um." He muses thoughtfully for her question, and then nods his head. "Yeah, definitely. I'd buy them, granting I could afford them of course."
"I could give a friends discount I'm sure, as long as business is good," Parker says with a smile and a knowing downward glance at Jaycob's reaction to her hand's recent proximity. She says nothing about it, instead she asks, "Did you do anything with that sketch you made of me last time I was here?"
The boxers remain tented up as Parker peeks down, Jaycob not seeming to comment, conceal or otherwise react to it either. At the mention of a discount, his lips curl into a soft smile for her and he nods his head softly back at her. "I'll be sure to spread the word of your business, then. And, thank you. I would appreciate that." He offers, and then he lightly shakes his head at her question. "Not really. It's just in my sketchpad. You can see it, if you'd like." A pause. "The sketch, I mean."
A soft chuckle at the quickly reversed and apparently unintentional double entendre is then followed by Parker asking, "Have you refined it an further since I was last here then?" as she remembers seeing it that day.
At that, he rises. To his feet. Jaycob stands up and makes his way to where his courier bag rests near the end of the counter, picking it up and returning to the couch once again, plopping down comfortably. "Some." He informs her, flipping the bag open and digging inside to withdraw one of his sketchpads. Then he flips through the pages to show the sketch of her, handing it over. The image itself is essentially complete, with her visage looking rather striking from the given angle.
Parker leans a bit closer to Jaycob to see the picture. She smiles and says, "Again, it looks very nice, thank you," about the picture. "I believe you mentioned doing paintings also?" she asks.
"Mostly with watercolor, yeah." Jaycob affirms as he adjusts how he sits in the couch, wiggling a little and facing her more as one foot curls up under his leg. "Are you thinking about getting a painting done, then?" He muses openly as he lays against the couch comfortably.
Parker shakes her head slowly and says, "No, just curious," then, pointing at his silk clad nethers, she adds, "You've seen my art so I was asking about yours is all really."
There is a nod, and then Jaycob grins as Parker points at his crotch, his gaze drifting down at the art she gestures towards before peeking back up at her. "Sure." He offers, letting out a soft yawn as he shifts and shuffles some more in the couch. "Yeah, I also occasionally do pottery too. Which is more fun than anything, really."
"Pottery also," Parker says contemplatively with a nod. She tips her chin towards Jaycob and asks, "Tired?" about the yawn.
Jaycob nods again, smiling softly back at Parker and then he lightly shakes his head at her question, reaching for the nearby remote. "Just that post lunch sort of vibe kicking in is all." He explains, offering the remote over to her. "What about you? Any other forms of art than this?" He asks, gesturing down at his lap, which brings his lips into another amused grin.
Parker nods. "I do sketches also," she explains. "Mainly to figure out how an outfit should look," she adds and looks around. "I don't have my own sketch pad to work with and I'd not presume to ask you to let me use one of yours," she states emphatically.
"Ah, why not?" Jaycob muses, reaching for the sketchpad he offered over to her earlier, flipping through to one of the blank pages and then he lifts up and bends towards the courier bag once again. He rifles through it for a moment, and then offers a pencil over to her from within before leaning back into the couch.
"Do you happen to have any colored pencils also?" Parker asks as she begins sketching the outline of a full human figure, masculine in shape due to the narrow trapezoid shape defining broad shoulders that taper to a waist that is narrow in relation to the shoulders.
At the request, Jaycob turns again, lifting some to dig back into the courier bag and shift through it to find a selection of colored pencils, which he lays out on the table before them, then leans back into his seat for her. "Definitely. I have most art supplies, except for the really expensive stuff." He offers as he shifts and adjusts once again.
Parker nods and mutters thanks as she finishes sketching out the hint of a man. With a colored pencil she adds what could be mistaken at first glance for a scribble of brown on the head but easily resolves into a thick mop of dark brown hair. There's no facial features and the sketch of the figure is used as a frame work for an outfit that she draws over it with colors: a ruddy brown sports coat with an orange paisley collared shirt beneath it, charcoal gray slacks and black shoes appear.
To the side of the figure she sketches a quick outline of a bent arm and on it she draws a close up of the sleeve showing a predominantly ruddy brown with dark gray interspersed herringbone twill pattern with dark, chocolate brown patches on the elbows. Additionally, beneath the picture she sketches the outline of and enough details to clearly identify a shoe as a black Chuck Taylor, suggesting that this would be the shoes to accompany the outfit. Finally, to the side of the figure she sketches out a pair of pockets - one for a pocket watch the other more generously sized - and a denim fabric pattern texture around and on them suggesting the style the pants would be made in.
It all took a few minutes, there's no realistically clear details but it is all still obvious what this would be if made physically by the designer who drew it. She sets the pencils back into the case and blows off some pencil dust before fully showing the work - not that it was hidden while she drew it - and says, "Mostly stuff like this, to get an idea of a project to work on."
Meanwhile, Jaycob certainly seems patient enough, coolly watching Parker as she slowly applies more and more detail to the sketch in her lap. All in all, it probably takes a little while for her to finish, and he is ever patient. Once she finishes, his lips curl into a soft smile and he nods his head back at her. "That's pretty cool." He offers her, peeking more towards her facial features.
Examining her own sketch, Parker says, "I might be able to get the entire outfit made in a week if I worked on it close to around the clock... definitely can get it done in time for a winter holiday party of any flavor." She looks back over at Jaycob and says, "You planning on going to any such thing?"
"Oh I know that feeling. It takes some time to really get a painting to be up to a good quality." Jaycob offers thoughtfully in return, and then he shakes his head softly. "No plans for anything just yet, no. I'm not even particularly aware of any of the good parties going on. Haven't really been invited to one, nor have I investigated for one."
Parker nods. "Well, maybe I should still work on the outfit for you anyway?" she asks finally making blatent what was implied before about the sketch.
"Oh, no you don't have to do that." Jaycob assures softly, his lips curling into a delighted smile for her as she speaks. "I appreciate the consideration."
Parker frowns and asks, "Oh, you already have a good semi-formal coat then?" looking totally confused about the response.
"Well, no." Jaycob answers with a light shake of his head back at Parker. "No, I just... Wouldn't want to consume so much of your time. It's a very sweet and thoughtful gesture tough." He adds, his smile lingering on his lips for her.
"It'll give me a chance to try out some new techniques also but if you don't want it just tell me that, dude," Parker says, slipping into a cadence of speech that she herself isn't familiar with based on the expression showing on her face at the moment she voiced 'dude' at Jaycob.
"I'm not saying I don't want it." Jaycob assures Parker softly, with the faintest bit of a blush finally forming on his cheeks. He seems to relax, and then grant her a soft smile. "I appreciate it, definitely. Thank you."
Parker smiles again and nods. "Of course, and I hope you like orange, seeing it on you I have found that I was right in my assessment... its a good color for you."
Another chuckle escapes him, Jaycob peeking back down at the boxers in question, and then his gaze trails back up at her. "If you think it looks good on me, then I'm definitely into it." He offers, his tone a touch playful as he speaks.
Parker grins and says, "That was easy. Met someone yesterday who I think is going to be resistive to my trying to encourage her to accept some dusty rose colors into her wardrobe."
"Just get her in underwear you make, and tell her she looks good in it." Jaycob answers, his lips curled with amusement before he chuckles softly. "It's bound to work." He adds playfully, and then reaches for the TV remote, and offers it over to her.
A quick shake of her head and the expression on Parker's face shows that she doesn't think that this was a constructive or well thought out suggestion but it softens quickly. "You really don't know what you're suggesting," she says with a soft hint of a chuckle. "She prefers grays and greens you see."
If Parker is perceptive, it wasn't. Jaycob's lips remain curled in an amused smile for her following his suggestion, and as she makes no motion for the remote, he decides instead to lay it down on the table in front of them. "Greys and greens can be nice though."
Parker nods and then, possibly surprising or ... well definitely titillating, reaches up from where her hands had been resting and lifts her breasts from beneath to bring full attention to the red bandeau bra though the translucent shirt as she says, "But everyone needs a splash of color in their outfits at the very least," and then lets her bosom return to its normal position as she lowers her arms again.
As Parker reaches up and lifts her breasts, still contained within her bra, Jaycob's eyebrow lifts up, his attention easily drawn in to the sight of her see through shirt as she does so. There really is no concealing his bodily reaction, with the limited modesty the boxers provide as the fabric twitches gently in response. "It definitely looks good on you." He agrees, otherwise making no comment on the titillating display.
All this discussion of the meeting yesterday must have triggered a memory as Parker suddenly says, "Oh!" and then, likely seemingly out of the blue from Jaycob's perspective, asks, "How would /you/ describe me?"
The sudden change of subject has Jaycob blinking softly back at Parker for a moment. "Uh?" He starts, sounding just a touch confused at the initial question and arching a brow back at her as well. "How do you mean, exactly? Like, your personality, your physical appearance... ?"
Parker nods as if that was all that needed to be asked. "I was called rich, showy, smug and full of it," she says. "I just don't get it. What's wrong with liking to look good and being confident about it?"
"Ah." Jaycob answers with some recognition formulating in his expression as she answers his question with more questions. There is a thoughtful pause as he considers her reaction. "Being rich isn't a crime, showy... Eh. Smug can be fine too. I don't exactly see you being full of it though." He observes thoughtfully. "You do look good, and you should be confident about it." A pause. "Who said that, if I can ask?"
Parker smiles and says, "Oh, don't you go looking for her, that wouldn't end in a pretty way for you, Jaycob. Its my new contact. Going to be making clothing for her also, we're entering into an arrangement and I'm going to try to liven up her wardrobe with those dusky rose colors I mentioned. May also get her to wear pristine white at some point."
"I... Wasn't planning on it?" Jaycob observes with another confused glance back at Parker as she makes that comment, though it quickly relaxes as she continues on to describe her new contact. "I see. Well, I can't say I entirely... Understand your personality fully, just yet. But I don't see what she sees, personally."
Parker laughs. "She also thought my crawlerlings were chasing her when I was just gathering them together...." she pauses and asks, "You're Garou kin... how much do you really know about the other Ovid?"
"Yeah, best to avoid chasing people around with those things." Jaycob identifies for Parker as he shivers a touch. "Mmm." He starts, for her next question. "Well, maybe more if I actually knew what that was." He offers with a light shrug.
Parker looks annoyed, only playfully so, and says, "I wasn't chasing her in any form," in a pseudo-exhasperated tone of voice. Then, sounding more serious, she says, "Right, so... in Garou-centric terms it means Fera but it includes them and excludes us. We are the eldest of the changing breeds after all, Jake-ed."
"As a general rule, it's best to be reluctant to being seen by anyone, Garou, Kinfolk alike, as spiders." Jaycob adds with his lips curling into a soft smile. "The immediate response is to smush 'em. Always." Though as she explains, he softly nods, and then shrugs. "Yeah, no. I hardly know anything about the Garou, even."
Parker's eyebrows rise as Jaycob proceeds to give her advice on being herself. She also smirks however so it mustn't be that bad a reaction she's having to this. "So, do you know anything at all about the other changing breeds... other than that we Ananasi exist as you've met me?" she asks.
It's not maliciously intended, of course. Jaycob grants Parker a rueful smile and then as she moves on to mention the other changing breeds, he lightly shakes his head. "Not really, no. I mean except for the fact that other breeds do indeed exist." He answers honestly.
Parker nods. "Not even what type of creatures they are... some or all?" she asks. She thinks for a moment and shakes her head. "No, I'm not just launching into the details," she says and then asks, "How pissed would the Black Bitches be if I started telling you about the changing breeds?" The term used doesn't seem to be being applied as a slur but as a proper term for female canines even though the word does have a dual meaning.
There is an arch of his brow back at Parker as she speaks, particularly at the choosen term she applies to his Tribe, Jaycob silently appraising her for a moment of consideration. A long, silent moment, it seems, where he remains positioned, appraising her... And doesn't seem to have much to say just yet.
Parker stares at Jaycob for a moment and then says, "Its a term I heard others using for them that seemed appropriate, female canines and all." She stops and watches him again then asks, "Did I offend you using it?"
"Which others?" Jaycob considers, not seeming to express an emotion one way or the other, just silently appraising Parker, carefully and thoughtfully, leaving her question unanswered for the time being.
"A pack of Garou in Oklahoma that I was tasked to observe but not interact with," Parker says honestly while slipping off the couch and crouching on the floor next to it, moving for comfort seemingly over any other reason.
"Interesting." Jaycob observes expressionlessly towards Parker, his gaze tracing her as she slinks down to sit on the floor next to him instead. HE shifts, taking advantage of the new space on the cough as his legs stretch out to claim the space she once occupied. "Did they provide a direct rationalization for the used term, or did you interpret your own?"
"I wasn't to interact with them so I couldn't ask them. Looked up the word in the dictionary," she pauses and as an aside says, "Fascinating thing human language," before continuing her original line of conversation, "Interpreted the use from there. I know it has another meaning but... I figured it was a double meaning and was acceptable use."
"So your conclusion that both meanings of the double meaning were effective and accurate." Jaycob concludes, observing from the statement Parker implies to him. "With the addition of the assertion that specifically the Black Furies are more prone to aggression, when compared to the other Tribes? Or am I misreading your intentions?"
Parker tilts her head to the side for a moment, nods curtly and says, "But they're not as rabid as the Get can get," in what sounds to be an attempt to be conciliatory while also mostly successfully fighting back the smile at her attempt at word play.
Another expressionless nod follows, Jaycob taking in Parker's words with a lack of amusement in response. Which, from the looks of it, he accepts as her confirmation to his questions. "I see." He answers gently, if somewhat curtly. "Well, whatever interest I might have possessed in learning about the other changing breeds really resided in equal ignorance as you've shown me, about your understanding of my Tribe." He decides, shrugging a shoulder loosely.
Parker takes a deep, centering breath and says, "Correct my ignorance then please," as she continues to balance on her toes in a crouch by the couch.
"I didn't say anything about intending to correct your ignorance." Jaycob counters, shaking his head lightly in response. "It's really not my place to do so at any rate. That's better served by speaking with a Black Fury Elder, someone far more familiar with our customs and traditions, and far wiser than I."
Parker nods and rises to her feet. "I do give you my apologies for offending you," she says, speaking more formally than previously as there has been a decided change. "I thank you for the brunch, sir, and if you wish I will make sure to call before visiting again," she says as she collects the canvas bag she brought her gift in.
As Parker starts to rise to her feet, Jaycob does in turn, rising to his feet so he is better prepared to say farewell. "Apology accepted." He offers, and then he nods softly at her thanks. "Any time. I love to cook. As for calling ahead of time..." He pauses to consider that, and then shrugs a shoulder loosely. "Eh, that'd be more for your comfort than my own, really."
Parker's formality doesn't drop and she inclines her head slightly to acknowledge his statement about calling ahead of time. "It is the proper way of things I think," she states.
Another shrug, and Jaycob grants a soft smile for her in return. "It's up to you." He informs her softly. "Anyway, best of luck on whatever you have going on, and have a good day."
- ↑ Quote from Spiders by Slipknot
- ↑ OOC Note: the boxers Parker gave Jaycob are basically these.