House Rules/Demon

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House Rules - Demon

"Obedience keeps the rules. Love knows when to break them."

-Anthony de Mello

Apocalyptic Form

See Apocalyptic Forms


  • This refers to Demon Faith (Faith potential for non-demons), not True Faith.
  • True Believers start with Faith:3: Akashic Brotherhood, Celestial Chorister, Nephandi, Euthanatos, True Faith merit
  • Thralls (active, not prospective thralls) may raise their Faith for 7 XP * current level, to a maximum of 5.


This rule mostly covers how demon powers interact with people who are neither demons nor pure mortals.

For anything using one game mechanic for demons and another for mortals, treat all non-demons as mortals, unless an exception is listed below.

For anything referring to demon-style immunity to mind control, see '+rules mind control'.

  • Celestials 2 (Send Vision), high torment:
    • It is a mental assault and can be resisted with appropriate powers.
    • The damage is physical and may be soaked by anyone except Mortals and Sorcerer-Psychics.
  • Celestials 3 (Pillar of Faith): Only works on demons.
  • Death 2 (Decay): Always does agg, regardless of race.
  • Flame 2 (Ignite):
    • Living bodies have a resistance of 7
    • Normal clothing has a resistance of 6
    • Vampires have a resistance of (5 minus Generation background)
  • Forge 1 (Enhance Object): Altering difficulty is limited to ability rolls, e.g. attack difficulty but not damage or soak difficulty.
  • Forge 5 (Imbue Object):
    • Can only target disembodied souls (non-Risen wraiths, demons without host bodies).
    • Targeting a PC counts as a risk 3 action.
  • Fundament 3 (Manipulate Inertia):
    • For throwing, the evocation's Dex+Athletics roll counts as a normal attack roll (e.g. you can substitute Throwing at -1 diff) except for the extra range and improved damage (replacing the usual extra damage dice).
    • Any additional throwing actions during the same turn can reuse the first roll. If you re-roll instead, that action doesn't benefit from the evocation.
  • Fundament 4 (Manipulate Acceleration):
    • If used to attack, treat the evocation's Dex+Athletics roll as a reflex (non-action) and also do a Brawl or Melee or throwing roll (counts as part of the evocation action, counts as a normal attack roll except for the automatic extra damage).
    • You can save some of the automatic extra damage to distribute to additional attack actions during the same turn.
  • Patterns 5 (Twist Time): Treat all non-demons as mortals.
  • Portals 5 (Doorway into Darkness): Treat all non-demons as mortals.
  • Radiance 2 (Exalt): When targeting a supernatural action with an extended roll, it only benefits one of those rolls.
  • Spirit 4 (Anchor the Soul): Same as Forge 5.
  • Transfiguration 5 (Shapechange): Supers and Mortal+ can have Appearance raised above 5.

Earthbound Lores:

  • At staff discretion, demons may spend freebies on one dot of an Earthbound lore in return for Dark Secret (was briefly a weak Earthbound) and +1 Torment.
  • Buying Earthbound lores with XP requires a staff-approved Earthbound teacher and is limited to level 1.
  • Earthbound lore is grounds for risk escalation if ICly discovered by another demon (2 for knowing, 3 for using).

Mental immunity

  • Demons are innately immune to mind control and fear.
    • Our ruling is that demons are immune to any power that compels them to direct, specific action.
    • Powers can effect a demon's mood, perceptions, and mental effectiveness, but the user of the power cannot direct the demon to take a specific action.
    • Also, no power may compel a demon to act against their Nature.
      • A Caregiver can't be made to abandon their charge.
      • A Judge can't be made to look the other way.
      • A Thrill-Seeker can't be made to take it easy.

Demons have this immunity at all times, as long as they have at least 1 temp Faith. (DtF 159, 171)

Thralls may be granted this immunity as part of their pact. Each time it's relevant, they must roll Willpower vs base diff 7 to see if it's effective. (DtF 253)

Otherwise, lores blocked by this immunity work on non-demons, but are resisted by other mental defenses (e.g. mage/psychic mind shields) as usual, typically canceling successes on a 1:1 basis:

  • Humanity 2 (Insinuate)
  • Humanity 4 (Confession)
  • Humanity 5 (Alter Memory)
  • Radiance 1 (Voice of Heaven)
  • Radiance 3 (Aura of Legend)
  • Radiance 4 (The Mark of the Celestials)

This immunity does not block blood bonds. Blood bonds are emotional in nature and do not compel the bound person to any direct, specific action.


  • Good Right Hook
    • Limited to bashing damage.
    • Does not benefit apocalyptic forms.
    • May be taken by non-demons.
  • Sexy: Target must already be attracted to you specifically, not just your gender.
  • Smooth: Limited to offsetting difficulty penalties.


  • Extra Actions: All Extra Actions (not split actions), regardless of type, must wait until all players in the round have acted and then occur alternating in order of initiative. This includes Demon extra actions and any other powers which say otherwise.
  • All demons effectively have 5 dots in Enochian (Order of Hermes 65).

Possessing a new host

Typically when your old host is killed or you're otherwise forced out of it.

  • Thralls are not automatically suitable, see DPG 36-39 for guidelines. Auto-success (thrall is willing) requires at a minimum that they're also a Retainer/Follower. DtF 164 references DtF 259 for more details and does not take precedence over it.
  • You must still make enough Willpower rolls to reach a suitable host, and lose 1 perm Faith / gain 1 perm Torment even if you succeed. (DtF 259)


There seems to be some misunderstanding of who/what is exactly immune to various forms of supernatural innate powers. The following is a list of what's what for the races that have such:

Revelation - Each time a demon uses her Faith, mortal observers can make a Perception + Awareness roll to sense the demon's true nature. The difficulty of the roll is 10 minus the total number of Faith points the character spent (or lost) in the scene. If the difficulty reaches 0, all mortals automatically perceive their true nature. Demons can also allow mortals to perceive their true nature without spending Faith, whenever they wish. Finally, if a character invokes her apocalyptic form (see Chapter Seven for details), mortal witnesses automatically suffer the effects of Revelation. (pg. 254-255 DtF)

Staff interprets this as follows:

  • Evocations: '+rules awareness' applies as usual, replacing the canon rule.
  • Apocalytic forms: See '+rules apocalyptic form'.
    • Observers automatically sense that you're supernatural, even if they're immune to the panic roll, and even if you don't manifest anything physically obvious (e.g. wings, extra arms).
    • Observers need Lore Demon 3+ in order to reliably identify what type of supernatural you are.
    • There may be NPC observers! (+rules in public) Their level of skepticism is left to player discretion. (DtF 253)
  • The following are immune to the panic roll:
    • All Demons (Obviously)
    • All Wraiths/Risen
    • All Shifters
    • All Mages
    • All Vampires
    • All Changelings
    • All Mummies
    • All Ghouls
    • Sorcerers with at least level 3 in any numina.
    • Psychics with at least level 3 in any numina.
    • All Possessed
    • All Kinfolk
    • All Kinain
    • Hunters with Conviction defenses active


Each point of Faith benefiting the thrall gives them one of the following: (DtF 253)

  • Repair chronic injuries/impairments
  • 10 freebies (attributes, abilities, Willpower; house rule: backgrounds OK)
  • Inherent power, e.g. immunity to mind control (Willpower vs 7 to see if it works)
  • Lore power (costs points equal to level, Willpower vs 8 in place of usual primary roll)
  • Apocalyptic form power (Willpower vs 6 to activate for the scene)

Only the following can be thralled by a demon:

  • Mortal (obviously)
  • Mortal+ (Sorcerer-Psychic, Ghoul, Kinfolk, and/or Kinain)
  • Mage
  • Shifter (major drawbacks, see below)
  • Hunters (limited circumstances and benefits, The Infernal 96-97)

Thralls may raise their Faith with XP. (+rules faith)

Demons do not have to buy Pacts background for PC thralls, but only gain Faith from them while the thrall remains an approved PC.

Being thralled by a NPC demon: (staff discretion if they're a retired/inactive PC)

  • Must take Mentor 5 to represent them
  • They draw as much Faith as possible (half rounded down), rest can be used to empower the thrall

NPC thralls are typically set up as follows:

  • If covered by both Pacts and Retainers, they have Faith 3 (2 for them and 1 for the demon)
  • If covered by just Pacts, they have Faith 2 (1 for them and 1 for the demon)
  • If covered by just Retainers, they have Faith 2 (2 for them and 0 for the demon)

Thralls with a Lore power can use the high-torment version, but must make an appropriate virtue roll afterward. (Damned and Deceived 67)

  • They still typically use Conscience / Courage / Self-Control, not demon virtues.
  • If they don't have virtues on +sheet at all, see '+rules missing stats'.

Apocalyptic form enhancements can only come from the demon's current apocalyptic form, and the demon can't alter that part of their form while the pact remains in effect. Other rules on these enhancements (DPG 135):

  • A thrall with multiple enhancements must roll Willpower for each of them separately.
  • Each high-torment enhancement gives the demon 1 temp Torment (unless perm was already 7+) and gives the thrall a derangement.

Thralls vs. vampiric stuff (WW8201/69)

  • Vampires cannot be thralls. Embracing a thrall breaks the pact.
  • Ghouls / blood-bonded non-vampires can be thralled. Thralls can be ghouled / blood-bonded. These do not break each other. Any resulting conflict of interest is the target's problem to deal with ICly.

Shifter thralls (WW8201/70-71)

This is probably very bad for the life expectancy of both the shifter and the demon. Do not pursue this unless you're prepared to lose your character quickly.

Example: Alice is a demon, Bob is a shifter thralled to Alice, Charlie is a non-thrall shifter.

  • "Mantle of madness and despair": Each scene, Bob rolls Willpower vs 7, fail = all dice pools halved. This is based on Harano (Players Guide to Garou 226), but worse.
  • "Other werewolves are able to detect the change": If Charlie meets Bob, he automatically detects that something is severely and supernaturally wrong with him.
  • "and will hunt down and destroy this abomination if they can":
    • Charlie is a PC and can interpret this however he wants. 'Alice ending the pact is good enough' is valid. 'Alice and Bob both need to die' is also valid.
    • If Charlie learns that Bob is a shifter thrall, Bob is automatically escalated to risk 3 with respect to Charlie.
    • If Charlie learns that Alice has thralled Bob, Alice is automatically escalated to risk 3 with respect to Charlie.
  • All Willpower rolls (except "Willpower vs 7 each scene" above) are +2 difficulty, fail a Willpower roll = lose a temp Willpower, botch = lose a perm Willpower. Perm Willpower drops to 0 = frenzy until killed or pact revoked.
  • Bonuses granted by the pact may be limited at staff discretion. This limitation will be applied at the time the pact is established.
  • Fera work the same as Garou, except the following for which +2 is reduced to +1.
    • Bubasti (WW3807/58-59 "devotees of all things arcane" ... "magical affinity"; WW3037/52 "prefer to uncover ancient or forbidden lore, magical enigmas")
    • Others at staff discretion (+request with a book/page reference)