Renown FAQ

Hello, friends!

There's some common questions about renown that we've compiled up and tried to answer here. If you have a question that isn't answered here, you can @mail Hyena! Not only will your question get some form of an answer, but it may also end up added to this list.

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Q: I want renown! How do I get it?

A: Click this helpful link! Everything you need to know about putting in a renown request is right there. It doesn't have to be formatted in *exactly* that way but those basics are definitely still needed. Who was there, who ran the PrP, what happened, etc.

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Q: Are scene logs required?

A: No, they are not required, but they're really helpful and entertaining. Staff cant always read a full log, but if we can skim through it then we can keep abreast of what's happening out there on the grid, and sometimes we might see renown options that you missed and add them. If you cant include a log, you can add relevant scene snippets along with the request, or add a little something alongside most entries that explains its specifics. As long as Staff gets information, you get renown. If there's no information, you will instead get an @mail asking for an explanation, and then your job goes to the back of the line. Avoid wait times by telling a cool story up front.

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Q: WHY do you need all that info just to give me some points??

A: Type '+help +renown' and have a look at that +renown/log option. That's why. Also, for races like the Garou for instance, renown reports are made and the Galliard(s) need to be able to do their job, read your renown and report on it during Moots. 'Was nice to a kinfolk' means nothing to anyone compared to 'kindly helped Jill fix her front door and porch after a pitched battle with warrior hedgehogs, so that she knows she and her possessions mean something to us all'. Also, staff needs to look at your renown/log sometimes and find out if you've hit a monthly cap or if something's already been awarded, or even if a spirit savvy character is asking questions about you.

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Q: This PrP had like 10 people in it. Do we have to do our own renown requests individually?

A: Nope! You can if you want, but I guarantee you someone's going to get shorted on renown because they didn't think to ask for something that everyone else thought of, and it's not really staff's job to make sure you're getting things you didn't ask for. If you have a PrP going on with a bunch of people, elect a renown person the same way you elect a +xp/nom person to get everyone in a scene. You don't HAVE to, but if you have one person submitting a request for everyone at once, there's a much lower chance that someone's going to miss out on some kind of renown. And don't forget to give them some love for the absolutely epic amounts of typing they're about to do on your behalf!

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Q: Should we do renown requests each scene, or at the end of a PrP?

A: At the end of a PrP is best for both players and staff alike. It avoids confusion and double entries that can result in staff having to go back and dock some accidental extra renown because something you can only get once in a plot was awarded twice, or any other number of issues. It's less work for you players as well, as you can just take a couple quick notes for yourself or save a log, and then put it all together at the end rather than having to submit five different times, or continuously add to a job and keep staff from being able to process it because you're not done yet.

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Q: I just got some renown jobs processed but these totals don't look right to me. What gives?

A: There's a bunch of answers for this. Often enough, renown that you get tends to be the same as the renown that you requested, but we're obliged to try and use some strict common sense on our end when it comes to certain things, due to the sheer amount of renown traffic. Your math may have been wrong, or you may have misread something as one category, when really it's another, or is the product of an outdated chart. Staff might disagree and think something you requested is meaningless to your breed or doesn't apply to your situation at all as per the information we're given, or staff might think something should have a smaller award. And yes, we know you're padding your requests! We don't hold it against you, but let's face it, sometimes it's a no.

Was it REALLY facing certain death if the combat of 1 bad guy versus 5 rank 5's lasted one round and no one was hurt? Probably not. Should the whole group get a bonus for drawing first blood? Newp, it's called 'first' for a reason! Can you get a bonus for no other Garou getting hurt when you were the only person in the scene? Naw fam, come on. These are the kinds of things we look at when we're processing your requests. If it seems silly or wrong, we're not gonna do it, and we're not gonna feel terrible about it since there's still a bazillion more renown waiting for you around the corner.

All that said, it's still completely fine for you to ask this question of the staffer that processed it. If you do, we'll explain how we got to our totals, and if you really disagree then you have a moment to change our minds. And hell, sometimes we will be alerted to a legitimate mistake from a typo and fix it.

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Q: I'm so OCD that I sat down and added up my entire +renown/log and the totals don't match what's on my +sheet!

A: It's actually a code thing and absolutely nothing to worry about. If the awards are put in super fast, the +sheet renown numbers update just dandy, but the /log does not and only catches the first one entered. It's just one of those odd things that only comes up now and then, and for a lot of things we tend to use your +sheet totals unless we're looking for something specific like a monthly cap.

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Q: The renown chart for my type is too old or too broad scope and doesn't fit me at all!

A: Yeah there's a lot of that going around. New, fully fleshed out renown charts for each and every breed are being developed slowly but surely, and older existing charts are due for a good updating. Unfortunately, there's only one person doing it so it's gonna take a hot minute for everyone to have their very own breed specific chart. If you don't have a renown chart for your breed yet, then really all you can do is just guess to the best of your abilities, the same as staff.

Use existing charts, such as the Garou, Bastet, Corax, Gurahl, the old Fera Renown and Hengiyoke charts as best you can, pick and choose things that seem most closely related to your breed/auspice/etc, do a little rewording if you need to, and submit your requests with as much info as you can. Especially if you're playing a less-than-mainstream breed! Staff and players alike just have to limp along with what we've got until more renown charts come out, and players just have to trust that staff's going to use the most updated info we have in order to keep everything as fair and balanced as possible.

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Q: I'm a Kinfolk, can I have renown too?

A: Yes you can! In fact, there's a kinfolk renown page on the wiki. This page, like several others, needs some love and attention to flesh it out better, but it's cannon stuff straight out of the books right now. Kinfolk receive 1/4th the renown of a full shifter, PER ITEM, not per grand total. The numbers from the current Kinfolk Renown page are accurate and do not require any division, but awards coming from the full-shifter pages (Garou/Bastet/Etc) are divided by 4; e.g. Glory 2 for Defeating a Minor Threat of the Wyrm would, for a kinfolk, be 0.50 Glory.

Note: We do NOT round up for Kinfolk or anyone else, if something falls short of a full point, then that's just how it is. If you as a kinfolk want to rake in that sweet sweet respect, your best bet is to be fearless, bust your butt participating however you can, and frankly just go the extra five miles if you want the shifters to give you your due.

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Q: Hang on a second, I'm a Kinfolk and I got told I cant have renown! Y U LIE?!

A: Check your +sheet and see what your Faction is set as up in the Vitals section. If it's not set as Gaian (or Wyrm), then your character is not invested in that sort of spiritual currency or that particular sphere. For instance, a Kinmage that is set as Faction: Traditions is in line with and invested in the Traditions way of life, not the Shifter way of life, thus they are not reporting to spirits in the way of shifters nor relying on spiritual judgement of that sort for their actions. Therefore, no renown for a Tradition Kinmage.

If you feel like your Faction is not correct for your character's life path, talk to staff about it in a +request. Mechanically speaking, it determines which clubhouses you're allowed to enter. Thematically, it's the sphere-lifestyle to which your character is most invested.

Update: Kinfolk set as a different Faction, such as Traditions, will still have their participation in events recognized. This does not gain the Kinfolk any renown of their own, but when the monthly renown reports are made, Bob the Verbena/Coggie Kinmagi that's set as Faction:Traditions will be noted as having helped out and how rather than being left out of the reports. The PEOPLE might care even if the spirits do not.

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Q: I'm a kinfolk and I've managed to get TONS of renown! I can boss Shifters around now, right?

A: You'd think so, but no. Shifters might respect your ability in battle or your wisdom or craftiness, but you're still Just A Kinfolk, unfortunately. Trying will probably just make the psychotic, racist rage monster you're bossing punch you through a wall, and then everybody's up for a good old fashioned renown spank! That said, if you do have the clout, you can stand up for yourself better, or get in on more dangerous plots with shifters. Your renown is your bragging rights and little else, but it CAN show a shifter or a kinfolk that you're the right guy or gal for a specific job. Or not, if your renown is the bad sort.

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Q: How often can I submit renown requests?

A: As often as you do things that warrant renown. If you're very active and bust your butt doing things, then put in a lot of requests. It's fine with us, as long as you're giving us the information that we need to process them. More info, more renown, less waiting.

Pro tip: Just about every kind of shifter has some sort of monthly option to request renown. For example, Garou get 'helping guard a caern' and 'performing regular duties for the local sept'. It's not much, but that's two Honor a month just for being an active player. Did you forget to put that request in last month? It's okay, we'll back date two months' worth of monthly renown for you. If you remember to request it. Forgot the month before last? Too late now buddy, sorry!

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Q: But I HAVE been active and busting my butt, but I still ain't got no renown!

A: Are YOU making sure you put in requests? If it was real life, this 'd be everyone else's fault probably, but on an MU, you just plain cant rely on other people nominating you for renown. Some people do it, but by and large people get busy, they forget, they've got their own stuff to do that takes hours and hours of typing.

Be proactive for your own renown when and where you can. Don't be scared if you're a newbie either, the worst thing that happens is we say no to something or ask for an explanation. In game terms, the spirits are watching you, they see what you're doing, people tell them gossip about you, and YOU mention gossip about you to the spirits and your homies. In real life terms though, YOU have to do the leg work. It's not bragging, it's not being selfish or greedy, it's a reward for what you've been doing, which you are entitled to if you are in fact doing things.

It doesn't have to be just for combat scenes or tense moments in RP, but if you're too humble, you're never going to gain ranks. Did you give legitimately good advice to someone who really needed it? Did you go out of your way on behalf of a kinfolk? Did you step up to settle a dispute or sit down and RP teaching someone the philosophy behind the Rite of Summoning? You NEED to tell us about this and get your reward. Start putting in +renownreqs for yourself if you're not already doing this.

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Q: What about negative renown?

A: Unsurprisingly, the vast majority of people only request positive renown, rarely or never negative renown for themselves, and rarely or never negative for other people. That's fine, but you CAN, just so that you're aware. If you think about it, you can dock yourself here and there and still rake in the positive renown, if you're anything approaching active.

So, if you're a humble player that feels weird about requesting too much renown, then just add in a dock for that time you were in a bad mood OOCly and took it out on someone during RP, or that time you lied a little bit. In the same vein, if someone docks you for that, don't freak out, you probably make that much renown in a week or two and it's not like it limits your growth in any way. If the loss ends up in your log, well, now you know not to do that again. Remember, it's a game, losing a couple points of Wisdom or Honor is only the end of the world if you never do anything at all.

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Q: This Shifter in my race is a real jack ass, I WANT to nominate them for negative renown for things they've done, but I also don't want to get yelled at OOCly for doing something that feels right ICly. How can I get that person docked renown for crimes without them tearing my face off?

A: You've got two options when it comes to potentially pissing other people off here. And yes, they will be, because no one likes getting called out or getting docked goodie points.

1) Just do it. Nominate them for renown and take it on the chin like a pro if they flip out.

2) Submit a +request or a +renownreq (as you would for yourself) explaining your desire to make an anonymous request for negative renown against someone, explain the situation and what renown items you're attempting to dock them for.

Regardless of which way you choose to go here, you're looking at a definite wait time. Getting renown is easy; people put in logs, poses, explanations. LOSING renown isn't as easy because few people are okay with fessing up to their screw-ups. Staff is obliged to look into the matter, talk to people, request logs, consult with other staff and with other open jobs and so on, so make sure you add as much information and evidence as you can about law breaking, bad behavior, or whatever the dock is for. This is for the sake of both parties and to ensure that we 'the spirits' can pass the fairest judgement we're able to, and you're just gonna have to deal with that taking a little bit of time before such a judgement can be made, depending on the depth and complexity of it.

Most people tend to shy away from the idea of making a friend or acquaintance angry with a call-out, but the shifter sphere runs on renown, plain and simple. You don't have to be spiteful, but if They're Doing It Wrong and you know it, then you've got to say something. Maybe we'll agree with you, maybe we wont. You're not likely to know how things turn out in the end, but you will have played by the theme of the game.

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Q: Great, now someone just tried to dock me for a crap ton of renown, wtf do I do?

A: If you got straight up nominated for negative renown and you want to contest it, you may absolutely do so.

First and foremost remember that this is a game, your character is not a real person and an opinion that your character did something wrong isn't a reflection on you as the player because you're supposed to be acting and pretending anyway, so please try not to flip out too badly on whomever sent it.

Second, if you want to contest it, you can put in a +request. Lay out all your information and counter-arguments, reference the renown job you're talking about, and try to be sane. Take your time, we're not going to process a dock right away so you have the time to step back and calm down if you need to. Does the penalty seem enormous? That's probably just because someone isn't sure where it fits and, just like with positive renown requests, has padded it knowing that only what actually fits will be accepted out of it all. Good or bad, you throw things out there to see what sticks and what doesn't.

If a dock is sent in, anonymously or not, and staff has any question about it at all, then we're going to investigate it. If it's a small thing, we'll want to see the scene log, and we'll process it as we see fit. If it's bigger than an attitude problem, provable lying, jerkface behavior, etc, you'll probably get a Query from staff about it looking for your side and your info about it. If things turn out not in your favor, try and take the loss with some grace and remember that the person that sent the dock in is simply playing a game just like you are.

Avoid docking or getting docked by having open dialogue OOCly and just plain playing within the theme of your type. If you question someone's behavior or words, ask. If you know your character's actions or words are questionable, explain. It only takes a minute and huge kerfuffles can be avoided if someone just asks if the person is intentionally RPing their character as a brat or not.

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Q: Renown takes soooooo looooooong!

A: Yeah. Some people don't think it be how it were, but it do. Look at your job number. Job #1459 has 1458 other jobs in front of it, and there's only so many staff. Some renown jobs are easy peasy and can be processed real quick. Other renown jobs NEED a second opinion from another person on Renown Crew, and sometimes a renown job needs a full fledged discussion behind the scenes as to rules, theme, or any other thing.

This isn't usually too bad, but also take into account that there's only a few people dedicated specifically to renown, and we're only human. Old humans. Humans with bad backs and colds and broken heaters, asshat roommates, horrific weather conditions or crappy connections, jobs and kids and SOs that may or may not be complete jackasses or super wonderful. The best any of us can do is apologize for the wait and plug through as much as we can as often as we can. With the amount of shifters and kinfolk that there are versus the less-than-five renown people, AND the fact that we also want to stop staffing and go RP sometimes... Yeah. Sorry about that.

It's getting better though, there's more staff helping out. If something seems like it's really just been sitting there forever, it's probably because it's awaiting word from someone, and that person is just out. Sick, work, fell down a well, who knows. It'll get done though, promise.

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Q: But I'm due to rank up!

A: Put in the rank up request anyways. Note in your request that you're awaiting renown from this and that job#, and that renown is what will rank you up. Anyone that processes that is probably going to jump in there and do the pending renown requests real fast as well while they're handling the other ones. Don't worry, it's not gonna sit forever.

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Q: I killed a bad guy! How do I figure out if it's a 'minor threat' or 'average' or what?

A: Let's use some example people. Meet Jane, a Rank 2 Fianna. Jane will go through several encounters, and we'll gauge them.

1) Jane enters a claw to claw fight with a Rank 2 BSD. Both of them have pretty even stats, they're both using Gifts of a similar vein. It's tough but not too tough, left to the luck of the dice more than anything. This is an Average Threat because they were both evenly matched. - Similarly, if Jane was with a pack of 4 more Garou around her Rank and experience, working under a totem, and encountered five total Rank 2-ish BSD working under a totem and of roughly equal stat experience, it's also an evenly matched Average Threat.

2) Jane encounters a single BSD cub and stomps it into pudding. By that sentence alone, it should be obvious this was a Minor Threat. Similarly, if Jane was an Elder and fought against a Rank 2 BSD, that's probably also going to be pretty minor. A Fostern vs an Elder just isn't much of a threat unless the kid gets super lucky.

3) Speaking of lucky, now Jane is squaring off with an Rank 5 BSD. Some how, her enemy's dice are the worst, and her luck is running high. By some strange chance, she manages to NOT die, and even manages to slay the elder despite probably taking a lot of damage. This is absolutely a Very Powerful threat for her, and more than once her imaginary player probably started thinking up a new character to replace her poor dead Jane, only to be surprised.

4) This time, someone gave Jane a gun. She has a badass, high powered fetish sniper rifle with a clip of silver ammo now, and it's huntin' season! Jane tracks a bad guy, finds a nice, safe place to perch, lines up her shot, and BAM! Her target, a Rank 5 BSD, is killed instantly by a head shot, having been completely unaware of Jane's presence and lacking any active defensive gifts. Despite the fact that this Rank 2 just killed a Rank 5, there is no threat here. Her heart rate probably never rose, she never had to shift forms, think of her next move, or even break a sweat, and the enemy was basically defenseless. This would be a Minor Threat at best; noteworthy because it is a thing that happened, but certainly not Glorious beyond that.

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Q: Okay, but this combat was a whole mixed bag of wtf and power levels. NOW how do I figure it out?

A: Don't panic! Just try and average it out a bit. How beat up did our PC heroes get from start to finish? Did anyone start to panic about losing their character? Did characters just wade through all your NPCs like selfish, plot ruining bastards? You gotta go with your gut on this one, and try to be fair.

If you're thinking 'eh, they broke a sweat I guess.' or maybe 'wow, that went by fast.' then you're probably going to request a Minor Threat

If your thoughts say 'That went pretty well, I'll tally things while the players heal!' or maybe 'Good workout and no one's hurt too badly!' then that sounds like an Average Threat

If your first reaction when it's all said and done is more like 'holy shit I'm so glad I didn't give that NPC those extra health levels I was considering...' or perhaps 'I hope Bob's not too upset about being Incapacitated, but thank goodness the rest of the pack is getting healing going' then that was probably a pretty Strong Threat.

Now, if the first thing you say when it's all over is 'OH GOD I'M SO SORRY I ALMOST KILLED YOU ALL!' then that's solidly a Very Strong Threat.

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Q: AND AND AND I had PC Cliaths and Adrens and Elders all in the same combat too!

A: This is where your hands are probably going to hate you, but thank god for copy and paste. So you had a crazy battle or something and all the attending PCs are just all over the place strength-wise. It's okay for you to tailor it a bit to them. The elder that literally danced through combat with one arm tied behind his back, you'll probably lessen the threat level against them. The Cliath that was working damned hard with what little he had, trying not to get himself killed and maybe, just maaaaybe manage to wound something by the end, it's probably much more of a threat to him.

Split up your Renown requests and give the different groups of people with similar ranks/strength levels their own combat renown sections for this if it seems right. Go with your instincts, try to be fair, and Renown Crew is going to be fair right back. We're gonna back it down or jack it up if we think you're too far off track, so don't worry about being horribly wrong on your guess.

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